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Bairefoot Inner circle 1097 Posts |
That's a great post Magic4545. It has happen to a lot of us. Being out of town and trying to that Magic Covention. So, on that subject its only happen to me a couple of times. About 4 and 3 of those times it was the same judge who made me lose. that's why I really like it when you can have a sit down with the judges after the contests. But, once again don't do AGT if you don't have a strong 3 90 second spots.
Bairefoot |
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videoman Inner circle 6732 Posts |
I think Jay has a lot of potential and a bright future but to be honest I have to admit that he doesn't seem quite ready for prime time. I happen to agree with the judges and think they got it right. I couldn't in good conscience vote for Jay after viewing his last outing. In fact, as much as I wish it weren't the case because I was totally rooting for him, I wanted him off the show for magic's sake. I felt it was embarrassing at that level of the competition.
90% of the act he performed was straight out of the catalog and not very strong at that. I mean, an appearing cane for a silk vanish??? and a bag for a blendo??? Don't wish to sound mean, but c'mon, that's junior high school talent show stuff. He didn't even perform it flawlessly and his nervousness was apparent to me. Flash, good music, and high-energy really aren't enough by themselves to get Jay to the level he would like to be at, you need really strong content to bring those elements together. It's all sizzle and very little steak at this point. I don't know who was more responsible for the choice of material (was it Jay or the producers?) but regardless it was absolutely horrendous selection of material. Did he not have anything stronger than that to present for only his second appearance on the show? That seems odd to me. I mean we are only talking a total of 3 minutes worth of material. How can you honestly think Vegas is just around the corner if you can't come up with 3 minutes of strong material? Like many of you, I was really surprised at how weak it was. When he was waving the 2 blue silks in the air I fully expected to see some new and unique variant of a spiker illusion to be rolled out behind him. My heart sank when it became clear he was actually doing a 20th century routine. I honestly think that what Jay needs right now more than anything is a good director and some real honest feedback concerning his strengths and weaknesses. For instance, someone to point out that it's just not very theatrical to produce 2 girls and then only use them to hold things and hand you props for small filler effects. And how about a girl in the blammo at the end, wearing some sexy star-spangled outfit? But eek, his puppy dog???? Is he deliberately trying to look like a sixth-grader? Where was his guidance? Did he ask for consultation from anyone (other than apparently his dad)? I honestly only wish you great things in your future Jay. But on THAT show, THIS year, you had to go. Sorry, but you just weren't representing magic in the best light. Everything you did simply fed the stereotype we all spend a lot of energy trying to dispel. (and don't get me started on those sunglasses, just kidding) Bill |
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magic4545 Inner circle Jimmy Fingers 1159 Posts |
Not really dIrected at Jay, but I'm also really disgusted by all of the pandering and the draping of oneself in the american flag. C'mon, develop some character. Are you nothing more than a Jerry Springer, WWF, Nascar pushing sellout to the lowest common denominator?
Yes, I spell america in lower case, because I'm disgusted by the ignorance and abuse of the image, without much adherence to the factors that made this country what it was a hundred yeas ago. Go out and buy a Harley to be cool, get a tattoo, and carry around an iguana to be cool, buy the image. Is it still nonconformity if everyone is doing it? For the money? For popularity? In kindergarten, they drilled into me the concept "be yourself" and then spent the next three decades trying to force me to conform. Jimmy Fingers Thinks for himself, at no time even CONSIDERED using a flag for the Magellan |
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Magic Patrick Inner circle Minnesota 1591 Posts |
I see nothing wrong with using the flag for the vest. I served my country for 12 years and the flag means a lot to me but people do far worse to the flag on their fourth of july outfits. The flag is what it is to each person. I think that his routine was a little anti-climatic. As for his choice of clothes it was fine and not selling out like you suggested. I see our olympic medalist draping the flag over them like a blanket. You don't get much more patriotic during the olympics and the fouth of july and it is in these times we see some of the weirdest outfits and behavior with the flag. After all it is just a flag, not AMERICA. I think you should leave the political statements out of magic as this is not a political arena. I say to each his own.
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magic4545 Inner circle Jimmy Fingers 1159 Posts |
That's beautiful, glorifying our country in the same breath as an attempt to limit expression. Thanks for the perfect example. LOL!
Obvious attempts to use the imagery for self gain is just lame to me. And in the context of this conversation, as pertinent as the mention of any of your military service. Jimmy Not looking around for permission to voice his disgust with AGT pandering of ANY kind. |
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magic4545 Inner circle Jimmy Fingers 1159 Posts |
That's beautiful, glorifying our country in the same breath as an attempt to limit expression. Thanks for the perfect example. LOL!
Obvious attempts to use the imagery for self gain is just lame to me. And in the context of this conversation, as pertinent as the mention of any of your military service. Jimmy Not looking around for permission to voice his disgust with AGT pandering of ANY kind. |
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
Ok let me back this up a bit folks.
first of all yes as I mentioned in the opening post I was a bit bummed byt he choice but thought it was doen well. it was a unified performance with a running theme. ok first off Jay is one of the busiest full time magicians around playing magic conventions all over the world! Corporate shows and many other high end venues. again was it the greatest choice of magic for the show maybe not but in a 90 minute show if he did this as part of that it would have be anice filler routine. anyway jay is a great guy and a very good friend of mine so maybe I am a bit bias but he does not ahve the huge budget that the other guy aparently does. lets hope any magican on AGT does well and goes farther this year then years past. sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
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ClintonMagus Inner circle Southwestern Southeast 3997 Posts |
If he had done "the same stuff as the other guy", they would have told him, "You did the same stuff as the other guy", and booted him.
I really would like to see Jay's entire show.
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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Bairefoot Inner circle 1097 Posts |
I know what it takes to win! If you have money for backing give an email. I will check the mail when I get back in town Sat. after doing my out of town shows this weekend.
Michael Bairefoot "I was always told if you ask you might just get it" |
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cairo Elite user 406 Posts |
Money for backing? Exactly how do plan to guarantee a return on investment?
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Magic Patrick Inner circle Minnesota 1591 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-20 19:50, magic4545 wrote: I say express yourself any way you like, that is the beauty of living in a free country. Jay use great taste by using the vest on AGT. I think that he just chose a wrong routine. We will see him again hopefully on a show that has some class and is not set up. AGT is nothing more than the modern day gong show meets american idol. |
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
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On 2009-08-21 02:18, BYUDAD wrote: The sad irony is that if the show had class and wasn't set up... the odds are that none of these magicians would have made it on the show. That's the deal. It gives people a chance to be seen that wouldn't be seen most other ways. The gamble is that you could get kicked off for any reason. We can all expose what's wrong with the show, yet real talents have emerged from it. If there was a magician that had the same star potential as Terry Fator, they could get through. Is there another major network show that gives virtual unknowns the chance to be seen by a national audience?
Ray Pierce
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Magic Patrick Inner circle Minnesota 1591 Posts |
Ray,
Besides Terry, how many variety acts have won AGT? How many vocalist have won it? When I say that it is set up I mean that they are very biased of who they put through and those they do when it comes to the american vote they try to skew them by saying something after the act. In this case, "end of the pier act". It is like elections, as soon as the media gets their front runner they skew the american perspective. I have a friend that has been on the show and puts the video on youtube.com. He consistently has to reload it as the show keeps getting it removed. So much for the publicity, huh? I have nothing to offer like Drew Thomas or the other pros that have been on the show. What I do have I do well but if I were to go on this show they would not think it was skill as I am not producing jets or whatever else they are looking for. They should just call it American Idol 2. Terry Fator was I believe the only variety act that has won it. I believe that they are on their 5th year. I may be wrong but it just seems that they favor the singers. Do you remember the soldier that would come on stage with his uniform? He was okay but the uniform/military service was what got him as far as he did. I mean he even forgot the lines in the second round and they put him through. Although a little boring was the latest act by Jay, he didn't have any flaws, it was pretty sound. |
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Bairefoot Inner circle 1097 Posts |
Hey Cairo. Do you have the money or backing to help? If not let it go. I did not gaurantee anything I said "I know what it takes to win." So if somenone is interested I might just get that email or call. The only thing in life that has a guarantee is that DEATH will come. I hope you understand why I can't tell you the secret.
Bairefoot |
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SpellbinderEntertainment Inner circle West Coast 3519 Posts |
In my opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing the “classics of magic”.
However, they must be done in an innovative, creative, fascinating, and new way. This gentleman’s routining was good, but his use of the props lacked that spark of creativity in presentation. I have to agree with Jimmy, that the flag blendo and vest were a bit much, as they seemed to push for popularity rather than patriotism. You can see he is a dedicated working performer, however it is not the budget he lacked, but rather a director, anyway that’s my final two-cents. Magically, Walt |
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-21 08:37, BYUDAD wrote: I totally agree with you that not enough variety acts have won. Now let's ask ourselves why this really is the case? My sincere feeling is that there are fewer variety performers or even people attempting variety acts. Singing is something you can practice on your own. There are millions of people who sing and millions who dance so there are a larger percentage of contestants competing with these skills. How many millions are variety performers? It's simply a mater of numbers. Because those art forms have the numbers on their side that means it resonates with more people and thus is easier to book and market. Now let's look at the number of winners from past years that have actually been successful. Let me think... there was... nope she's not doing anything now. What about those guys... nope nothing. There has been one. Terry Fator... a Variety act. I believe that factor alone is why they are even more accepting of variety talent than ever before. This is the first year I've seen them push variety acts over singers in several cases. Quote:
When I say that it is set up I mean that they are very biased of who they put through and those they do when it comes to the american vote they try to skew them by saying something after the act. In this case, "end of the pier act". It is like elections, as soon as the media gets their front runner they skew the american perspective. Absolutely. They as producers are trying to set up a tough competition that will build towards a nail biting climax that will keep the public tuned in and voting until the very last second. That's their challenge. To deliver large numbers of viewers to the advertisers. Quote:
I have a friend that has been on the show and puts the video on youtube.com. He consistently has to reload it as the show keeps getting it removed. Well, I'm not sure of the connection to the producers here. Every network has a huge legal and research team scouring youtube for people using copyrighted material. I'm assuming he's using the clip without written consent from AGT, NBC or any of the various production entities that own the licensing to the material he signed a contract for when he went on the show. I haven't been on this show but every other one has stipulations stating that you may not use any of the footage for promotional purposes. You might ask him if this is the case and is the reason the material gets pulled. Yes, I know there are a lot of people with AGT footage online and I'm sure in time they will be spotted as well. Quote:
What I do have I do well but if I were to go on this show they would not think it was skill as I am not producing jets or whatever else they are looking for. I don't think they are looking for "jets". As a talent buyer I don't look for someone that does it well, I want someone exceptional. Someone that transcends the expectations of the audience. I don't see why they wouldn't be the same. Now to round out the show they have to cast people that they KNOW will not make it through. We knew that the little girl rock band wasn't going to win, why were they on the show at all? Audience appeal. There are many acts like that... that's a part of good casting. We tend to not understand the justification for placing less talented acts on the show. They are always there to fill a role, even if we might not understand the thinking behind it. [/quote] Although a little boring was the latest act by Jay, he didn't have any flaws, it was pretty sound. [/quote] Exactly and with that, it filled a certain need on the show. They need acts like that to round out the hour or two of time they have to fill. There's nothing wrong with those roles, they fill a specific need. We just have to understand the reason for those roles and accept it as a part of the trade of for the national exposure that comes from it.
Ray Pierce
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ClintonMagus Inner circle Southwestern Southeast 3997 Posts |
I think back to Doug Henning's version of the Vanishing Nickel, and think to myself that with his presentational skills he could have moved along to the next round with that routine.
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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gulamerian Special user 581 Posts |
I don't think it is a matter of how much money you have or how many illusions you have, it's about what and how you do with what you have. How many times have we seen a magician do something and it is a tremendous success. Then someone else comes along and does the same trick and this time it falls flat on its face. It all boils down to...it's not what you do but how you do it.
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magic4545 Inner circle Jimmy Fingers 1159 Posts |
Heaven forbid creativity and ingenuity being cast into the mix, hilarious!
Can you imagine the panel of judges complaining, "That's too creative, we already had Kevin James..." Actually, I CAN imagine them saying that, even without knowing the difference. I'm almost impressed that the judges were aware of how hack 20th century silks is. Where was all of this discernment during bump? |
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videoman Inner circle 6732 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-21 19:17, magic4545 wrote: I disagree. The bump cabinet is one of the most surprising and entertaining illusions ever devised. If you were around when Doug Henning performed it on his first TV special it took the magic world by storm and lay audiences loved it. Doug closed his shows with it for years, in fact for pretty much his entire career after that if I remember right. It was one of the very few effects he performed in more than one special. His first special was broadcast before there were DVR's and Tivo and youtube, and consumer VCR's were pretty scarce. So most magicians only got to see it the one time and were blown away by it, myself included. Anyway, my point is that it is still seldom seen and is just a very surprising illusion, which is why I think the judges liked it so much. It really is kind of eye-opening to me as to which effects are genuinely surprising and entertaining and which ones aren't. The judges and producers do NOT seem to like box tricks where either the magician or an assistant get inside, an object(s) is pushed through it (ala spiker) then they are shown to be gone, only to reappear from the box at the end. And is has made me aware how predictable most of those types of illusions really have become. I think the exception would be something like an Origami assuming they have not seen it done before too many times, which they very possibly could have. Now I'm not saying there is no place in magic for a spiker type effect but I wouldn't recommend it for AGT. And whether you agree with the judges or not, they are pretty good at weeding out the original and surprising magicians from the fairly typical ones. Even if those "typical" ones are really talented and perform their act flawlessly. All you really need as a magician to get far on AGT is 3 or 4 genuinely surprising illusions and Drew Thomas has done 2 so far and is still in the game. But I don't believe you need to perform illusions though. I think Charlie Caper's opening act on Sweden's AGT is clever and original enough that he would get far even though it's small stuff and not "jets". Many magicians seem to consider Terry Fator as just another variety act or another vent. A "typical" vent would not make it very far on AGT I don't thnk. Terry Fator happens to be extraordinarily good at what he does. His singing impressions are almost always spot on, and to do that (while hitting some of those notes) without moving your lips seems impossible. He's a better vent than 99% of them as well as a better impressionist than 99% of those. So combining those two arts and excelling in each is something very special. If you are a talent buyer or entertainment director and you want a singing impressionist/ventriloquist, who else are you going to call? Which is why he has his own showroom in Vegas. Has there been a magician on the show who was similarly such a one of a kind talent? I wish there were but there hasn't been yet IMHO. A lot of folks grumble about a magician not having won, but of all the magicians appearing on the show so far, who would you say really was better than all the other acts and truly deserved to win? I absolutely love magic but I'm also realistic. Bill |
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