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Jonathan Inner circle Oklahoma 1223 Posts |
I was just listening to someone talk about false memories and it reminded me of several times where I had done absolute miracles. Either there was a huge stroke of luck, or a huge gamble paid off, some coincidence that was capitalized on, etc. where the person involved was absolutely floored. I knew this would be a grandiose story that would get told a million times and often thought of each of these instances as a big pick-me-up and just made me feel awesome as a performer.
HOWEVER, in several of these cases I talked with them quite a while later only to find out that they didn't remember it happening at all!!! I almost fell over! I couldn't believe it! I recounted the experience, and they agreed it was possible it happened but they just didn't remember it. One person said, "I don't like things I don't understand" and said they tend to push those things out of their mind because it would drive them mad if they didn't. That's happened more than once. What a waste those miracles were! lol Now, I was able to meet them much later because they had some connection to people I knew (such informal performances are where most of these "gambles" and taking advantage of coincidences happen, as opposed to on stage where there are time limits, less casual interaction, and fewer chances to gamble...although I always try to build in as much as possible), so they were more logical people than the average audience member probably. Another frustrating thing is when I hear something I've done recounted to others and either they remembered every little detail (which would normally be misremembered because of the patter and psychological techniques many of us employ) or they generalize it so much that it actually sounds less impressive (the clear disproof of obvious possible explanations most people would have was left out, etc.)! Has any of this happened to you? |
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Matthew Townsend Inner circle 1302 Posts |
It happened all the time until I got the spec to invest their emotions in the effect.
Do this and you will have no more problems Peace and love Matt |
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Ian Rowland Special user London 889 Posts |
Hi Jonathan. I can sympathise with how you feel, but by and large the vagaries of what muggles remember works in our favour, so don't be too worried. For every case where they don't recall a miracle you're rightly proud of, there will be ten more in your career where they rave and enthuse over a mis-remembered version of an effect that is better than the one you actually performed.
I think what Matthew said is right. If you hope people will remember you because you were great, you were brilliant, you did something amazing... well, they might, but it's unlikely. This is no disrespect to you. Even if you were, or are, utterly brilliant, many will fail to preserve the fact in their memory. However, if they had an amazing emotional experience; if they felt they were present when something rare and wonderful and mysterious happened and they were part of it; if they participated in something that made them feel their own minds had amazing potential... then the chances are they will remember it. Feelings and emotions are powerful and run deep, and the good ones tend to get preserved. This is a distinction that I am sure you are aware of, and many contributors to this forum have mentioned it over the years. Do a trick in which you prove YOU are amazing and extraordinary, and it will very probably be forgotten by next week. Do a trick in which you prove the spectator/participant is amazing and extraordinary, and he or she may well remember the experience for years. Here are two scripts for a simple 'think of a number routine' using a NW. Version One "Let's try something. Just think of any two digit number. Okay, focus, and I'll scribble something down here on my business card. Now some people say I can read minds, or have a sort of telepathic gift. I don't know if that's true, but I do know I've spent years developing my own mental awareness of other people's thought patterns and likely choices. Let's see if I'm on form tonight. What did you think of? 43? Okay, well, that's interesting. You know, sometimes I'm really disappointed when I try this. Sometimes I don't get anywhere close, and frankly even if I get within 1 or 2, which isn't bad, I still feel I could have done better. But tonight... well, tonight it seems I'm working well. Look... 43!" Version Two "Let's try something. Just think of any two digit number. Now, I'm going to share something with you. It's something I really, honestly believe. That doesn't mean you have to believe it, but just hear me out. I believe you have extraordinary potential. I believe you can do amazing things. What number did you think of? 43? Really? Amazing... I'll bet everything I have that you have known times in the past when people doubted you. Times when you felt frustrated because you knew you could do something, or be good at something, or be good for someone, and someone else didn't believe in you; didn't have faith in you. Yes? I'm sure this has happened at least once or twice. And you know what? Sometimes people go through a few bad experiences like that, and it gets them down. They stop believing in themselves. They think, 'Aw, what's the use', because other people don't have faith in them, don't realise their potential. I'm sorry you've ever been through experiences like that. But let me tell you something, for real: you have extraordinary potential. I mean it. I'm as serious as sin. I know these things about people; it's my job to know. Let me tell you something else. I sense that there are plans, and hopes, and dreams and ideals in your mind, in your heart, right now, that you have perhaps put on 'the back-burner', so to speak. Because you hold yourself back; because you have doubts; because those bad experiences have led you to wonder if you can ever achieve those dreams. Well, I think you can. You know, when other people perhaps don't have faith in you, it's not because you aren't amazing. It's because you're so amazing, they can't see it. You know why no-one can look directly at the sun? Because it's too bright. Too hot. Too amazing. Oh, and by the way, all these things I sense about you...? I'm not guessing. I don't need to guess. Ten minutes ago I wrote something down here, on the back of my card. It's just a number. The number isn't important. What's important is you. What's important is that if I asked a hundred people in this room to guess what I wrote down, most would be wrong. Dead wrong. But a special person, a person like you, can achieve things you don't even know you can achieve. Like guessing a secret number, and being 100% right, without even knowing how. It's been a pleasure to meet you, and remember... you are given your dreams for a reason, and only you can make your dreams a reality. It would be a shame to waste them, wouldn't it? Here's my card. When I've walked away, count five seconds, turn it over, and see the number that I wrote on the back ten minutes ago. And never, ever doubt yourself."
www.ianrowland.com . Working Magic.
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parmenion Inner circle Switzerland/Zürich 3988 Posts |
I agree, you surely did something great but as I noticed in your post, you talk about miracle ( miracle= magic) not emotionnel implication.
So, it's a nice magic trick, that's it. For me mentalism is sharing something with people, exchange, connexion and never miracle trick, no showoff. Showoff is great but it's not mentalism so people are not implicated in you magic.
“I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about.”
<BR>Oscar Wilde experimentaliste <br> <BR>Artist pickpocket Professional <BR> <BR>Looking for the best book test in French? send me a PM! |
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Matthew Townsend Inner circle 1302 Posts |
I would pay top dollar just to read Mr Rowlands post above!
I had the liberty of having a brief chat with him the other day and he is a true gent. Peace and love M |
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Jonathan Inner circle Oklahoma 1223 Posts |
Actually, that's a great point. Those instances were very much "hey Jonathan, show us something" and were more magic in nature. It was also more laid back, and more about taking advantage of the moment. Very different than what I would do in a performance.
A lot of it was with cards because that's where I started (whereas I tend to stay away from that in a stage show). I'm now scripting my new show, so that has given me something to think about. I already have similar presentations in it, but I'm going to keep that in mind as I work through the rest and try to see if I can make it even more connected to the people. There's a couple of routines I need to really think about how I can achieve that, it would really enhance the experience. |
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AnDraíodóir New user Ireland 89 Posts |
Some brilliant advice here! In Knepper's Wonder Words, there's some great advice about recounting stories of what you have done or can do to people while performing that results in those people leaving with the notion that you can do, or even did do, what you recounted in such stories. It's something I've begun doing so as to add nother layer to my performances.
On a similar note, has anyone ever got themselves into a situation where a story of what you once did, whether it was rehearsed or not, circulates around in almost a case of chinese whispers that results in a story you would struggle to live up to? I remember one week away in the west of Ireland with friends where I did some of my best improvised and "carpe diem" moments that were only possible due to the situations that arose, and sometimes pure luck.
Philip Ryan
"The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know" -Socrates |
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Jonathan Inner circle Oklahoma 1223 Posts |
Yes Knepper and Banachek's writings on audiences misremembering effects is what I used, but sometimes it just doesn't work. lol!
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
What may feel like a "miracle" to a performed may simply appear to be an expected outcome by the spectator. For example, lets say you were just going to do some sort of choose a card and reveal it trick, BUT when the spectator selected her card, you accidentally got a peek of it in her hand. Now, you can do a mindreading effect where you never touched the cards and she held onto it the whole time. While this may seem like a supposed "miracle" to the performer, to the spectator, while it may be impressive, it doesn't look like any more of a "miracle" than the other effects that went according to plan. She already expects you to be able to read her mind.
Since you're talking about card tricks, that might be part of the problem there. Card effects can be very entertaining, but most of the time they don't provide a transcendental experience or a lasting memory. But if you really want them to remember something, just tell them to. If you don't mind having a tiny bit of a ego for a moment, just say, "Pay attention because this is something you are going to be telling your grandchildren about..."
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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Jonathan Inner circle Oklahoma 1223 Posts |
Actually, I use that line! lol
One effect that wasn't remembered was when I was challenged to know a card they were just thinking of, which I got right on the head. Another was a big reaction when I had someone call any number in their cell phone and ask that person what their favorite card was and it was the card they were thinking of. You can fill in the gaps as to what happened in each case, but the way it came about and played out huge. The reaction at the time was everything you hope for. Surprising that it didn't stick...but, actually as I think about it, the latter case was remembered so that wasn't one I was referring to. Maybe it's not as many times as I'm remembering...I do tend to exaggerate the bad things in my mind (being a perfectionist). :-/ But, still, a few times it happened and it's still a bit odd to me. I would NEVER have forgotten it had I witnessed something like that as a layperson. |
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
But you're forgetting that to a spectator, those "coincidences" that seem like miracles to you, are expected by them. Telling someone a card they are merely thinking of, as a challenge, looks about the same as if you had been using a Radar Deck for example. So what stands out to you (because of TRUE improbability) doesn't stand out so much to a lay audience. I'm not saying you shouldn't milk those situations for everything they are worth. You absolutely should! But I don't think you should expect them to be remembered by a layperson the same way they will be remembered by you. Only you know the secret... that there was no secret.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts |
Jeff makes a really good point there. The MAJORITY of the time it's more impressive to the performer because of that little nugget of information that we know (that it was a VERY happy coincidence) but it means very little to the audience. Now, if it was a happy coincidence such as a spec just randomly draws out a card out of a completely shuffled deck (or the deck is a mess on the floor) and it's clearly a straight deck, and you randomly nail the random card, that's actually very impressive to the audience as well as satisfying for yourself because that is clearly impossible (and it really was!). So for the majority of the time, it makes no difference if it was purely coincidence or pre-meditated, but once in awhile you get one true miracle
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AnDraíodóir New user Ireland 89 Posts |
This hasn't always applied to my performances but why is it that these coincidences are suddenly impossible to us and not to the spectators? Why aren't they reacting with the same awe as we are, even if they think it's premeditated? Such events are utterly amazing, and understandably we react in a manner relevant to that fact yet every performance we strive for that same reaction and understanding of impossibility from the audience.
How do we achieve the same amount of excitement and awe in our spectators that we get for these occuring coincidences?
Philip Ryan
"The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know" -Socrates |
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Pablo_Amira Special user Temuco, Chile 682 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-20 06:17, Ian Rowland wrote: what a lesson!
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Asombro...lo más elevado a que puede llegar el hombre Johann Wolfgang Goethe |
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Jonathan Inner circle Oklahoma 1223 Posts |
I disagree. I think any rational person would be blown away if you did something as direct as having them think of something and then immediately name it. (with the proper presentation of course) In those cases I did a lot of different routines and those "miracles" were the ones that got by far the best reaction.
Regardless of method, the more direct and impossible the routine the more incredible it is to laypeople. Someone picks a card, the deck is thrown against a window and the card is on the other side of the glass. Who isn't absolutely blown away by that (that doesn't know how it's done, of course)? Guessing what hand a coin is in 5 times in a row may seem great to us, but it doesn't seem impossible to laypeople. It's direct, but not impossible. Similarly, having someone think of a flower and you name it (psychological f****) is direct, but not very impossible. Conversely, an effect could be impossible, but if there were a lot of "things" that had to happen to get there, a lot of talking, a lot of actions (put it into this envelope, now seal it, now mix it up, now pick up any two...), etc. then it isn't direct and there are a lot of "turns" in the pathway to the destination. Every turn makes people feel they might have missed something. It's like the mentalism equivalent to using a lot of props on stage. People seem to have short attention spans and I think if they lose complete 100% awareness of everything that's happened it seems less impossible. Even the slightest slip of awareness creates a possibility in their mind of how it could be done (on an unconscious level, of course) Having someone think of a playing card and then naming it might not be the most impossible thing you could think of, but when it comes as a challenge and the spec thinks they've got you...and you turn it around on them. Wow! That's impossible. The reactions are incredible! As far as pure astonishment, the more direct and impossible the effect, the greater the astonishment. However, like Ian said, if you can create an emotional experience for someone then you could do literally anything and make an impact. You could do nothing more than stand there picking off petals from a flower, but if you connect with their emotions... Bill Cosby did nothing more than tell stories while sitting in a chair, but you never forget it! Powerful and memorable. At least that's what I think. lol |
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Brane Loyal user Virginia, USA 272 Posts |
Ian Rowland's brilliant routine is worth the price of the book! I have used a vaguely similar approach to the Quantum 2 coin bend.
"You knew that was impossible to do, right? And yet . . . we did it! Here it is! So the next time you figure something you want to accomplish is probably impossible, remember this coin in your purse and realize that it may NOT be impossible after all . . ." brane |
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praetoritevong Regular user Sydney, Australia 139 Posts |
Great post Ian, it was a pleasure reading that.
I just wanted to add something that is oft recounted but worth saying again. A spectator who has invested their emotions into an effect and has received an amazing experience in return, will want to, simply by human nature, share that story, that experience. And in doing so, they often make the anecdote more amazing than it actually was, simply because they want to communicate to the other person how special that experience was to them, and hence an exaggerated account often follows. @ AnDraíodóir: Yes, it happens - and it's a gift. Obviously, only you know that you couldn't actually do that. So you could perhaps consider drawing out the time leading up to your performance, if you do decide to perform, or perhaps simply not at all, in order to keep up this anticipation they already have from hearing about you. I find that spectators are generally more responsive and even forgiving in this situation anyway. |
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-21 02:17, Jonathan wrote: I disagree more. Unless your performances encourage people to think along the lines of "method," then it shouldn't matter if their is or isn't one. If you can sense a difference, that may be a problem worth inspecting. I try to treat all my effects with the same amount of personal wonderment as the just-luck-chance moments. If you honestly think a spectator should react more strongly to you "just knowing something" rather than if they had written it down (for example), you are not doing justice to your regular presentations.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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Jonathan Inner circle Oklahoma 1223 Posts |
I'm not saying they should, I'm saying they do. Method doesn't matter to me, what matters is what the audience experiences. Even if they write something down, it can still be a terrific effect! But, everything else being equal, if it is more direct and/or impossible it will make a bigger impact.
This idea certainly didn't originate with me. I know DB and Ken Weber have written at lengths about this very thing in their books and I 100% agree with them. |
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
It's not about what the audiences experiences. It's about what you cause them to experience. The issue here is not your audience. You are expecting your audience to be able to distinguish between amazing coincidences and regular effects, when both of these should be given equal respect and weight in your own mind.
When they do seem to make this distinction, it probably has more to do with your reaction to it than their own. If you aren't giving the same amount of "weight" to each performance, lucky or not, it simply won't be remembered. Too direct can also mean too fast. An effect that is over in 15 seconds doesn't have a lot of substance to be remembered. I don't remember Derren Brown ever complaining that his work isn't being "remembered." Maybe you can point me to the source where he talks at length about it, so that I may see firsthand what you "agree 100% with." "Blown Away" does not equal "Lasting Memory," for the general public the same way it does for a magician. I really don't see what's so hard to understand about that...
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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