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Pauldela
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Can you guys point me in the direction to good ways to divinate what hand a spectator has a coin in, which is 100% reliable.

It dosnt have to be a coin, it can be somthing else (like the relic)

Thnaks.
Mike Ince
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Other than Relic, Charles Gauci's "Eye to Eye" is 100% reliable. The method taught in the movie, "The Illusionist" is close to 100% (wish it weren't included in the movie, though I've hardly met anyone who's seen it). You can also look at any of the three versions of "Child's Play" from your magic retailer. You may also look for a Midas gimmick; you may even pick one up used from someone here on the Café.

The only methods I know of with 100% accuracy involve gimmicks. The Relic is my favorite. If you'd like to learn non-gimmicked methods using body-language tells, look at the first few pages of Karl Fulves' "Self Working Mental Magic." Also look at Jerome Finley's "Thought Channel" ebook, which includes the most in-depth treatise on "guess which hand" tells in print. Sean Waters has a good tip on guessing without gimmicks in his "Contemplations" ebook, under the heading, "Which Handling". Bryn Reynolds' BOHT from "The Safwan Papers" ebook will also be of interest to you. Contact Mind Reading (muscle reading) is another great option, though you have make physical contact to discover where the object is located. Check out Banachek's "Psychophysiological Thought Reading" book to learn the muscle-reading method.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
parmenion
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The best method I know is the search button Smile
“I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about.”
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MagicOfT
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Prevaricator by Patrick Redford. You can get the booklet or wait for the new DVD coming out with Vanishinginc. Highly recommended. Its the same method as Thought Channel but cheaper and the first one published. Redford has a lot of really good ideas with the routine. Watching him perform the effect with the puzzle box is awesome.
parmenion
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I disagree Smile
Jerome has took and expanded previcator to different direction.
I think you don't have read TC to say that Smile
“I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about.”
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<BR>
<BR>Looking for the best book test in French? send me a PM!
kissdadookie
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Promystic's Proximity Smile You can perform it sleeveless from about 4-5 feet away from your spec AND you also have the option of knowing WHICH item is where (in other words, you can differentiate what object is what, this adds an entirely new and VERY strong element to the basic premise) Smile
MagicOfT
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Quote:
On 2009-08-21 15:47, parmenion wrote:
I disagree Smile
Jerome has took and expanded previcator to different direction.
I think you don't have read TC to say that Smile


I have stated my feelings elsewhere on this forum and do not want to clutter things up here. But briefly I feel that it is unethical for Finley to teach Prevaricator in his publication. I also feel the material taught in TC is essentially his handling on Prevaricator, which he sort of admits. But is it his right to publish? I personally do not think so, but to each his own I guess.
deputy
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Promystics Proximity and 100% it is fantastic, I use it everychance I get. And you can find different items to use as well. Also the Relic is quite nice
kissdadookie
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Two super thumbs up on Proximity Smile Currently I'm using the mini-chapstick and a USB flash drive with them Smile Along with a dollar bill Smile
MagicOfT
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Quote:
On 2009-08-21 16:31, deputy wrote:
Promystics Proximity and 100% it is fantastic, I use it everychance I get. And you can find different items to use as well. Also the Relic is quite nice


I agree. The relic is a beautiful prop and the routine is powerful. A good friend of mine wears his around his neck all the time so he is prepared for the routine. I think there can be some benefit to using the doubloon as opposed to a coin.
parmenion
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I think, the only one personn who can answer to this question is Patrick Redford.
What you think and what is real are two different things.
If Patrick was upset about this release, he would have said something about it.
besides I don't think you have really read TC, otherwise you'll see he goes far beyond previcator.
Essentially because previcator doesn't teach to you which hand technique.
“I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about.”
<BR>Oscar Wilde experimentaliste <br>
<BR>Artist pickpocket Professional
<BR>
<BR>Looking for the best book test in French? send me a PM!
MagicOfT
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Quote:
On 2009-08-21 16:40, parmenion wrote:
I think, the only one personn who can answer to this question is Patrick Redford.
What you think and what is real are two different things.
If Patrick was upset about this release, he would have said something about it.
besides I don't think you have really read TC, otherwise you'll see he goes far beyond previcator.
Essentially because previcator doesn't teach to you which hand technique.


Well I was also at the lecture where he taught much more than what is included in the booklet. That is why I advocate for the DVD because they filmed it at the lecture. During the lecture he taught a lot of new techniques and subtleties along with brand new routines to do with the basic prevaricator method. For example he uses a box, as opposed to a ring or piece of paper, for a really cook kicker ending.
And yes, I have read TC. And I do not deny that TC is good, the ideas and methods are strong (especially Paul Vigils addition) but my issue stands with the ethics of the releases not with the material enclosed in the books.
CAROLINI
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May I suggest BOHT! Only requires a little acting which we should all be capable of doing.
mindhunter
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Quote:
On 2009-08-21 19:15, CAROLINI wrote:
May I suggest BOHT! Only requires a little acting which we should all be capable of doing.


SHOULD be capable of...should be....LOL

"Mike Ince: ' Bryn Reynolds' BOHT from "The Safwan Papers" ebook will also be of interest to you.' "

Thanks for the mentions, guys.

Bryn
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John C
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Prox is the way to go
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
kissdadookie
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On the subject of Redford, back when Thought Channel was first being released, there was a bit of a conflict and Redford did come out and in a very subtle way (ah, the ways of the mentalist, ha ha) expressed his feelings. Of course things got blown out of proportions and Finley definitely has way more Café fans and associates which basically slammed Redford. That was way back in the beginning of 2008. All of this is easily found if you were to do a search on the Café on this matter. I certainly found it after I read Thought Channel. In the end, much of this comes down to politics. What can one do eh? It appears that Redford took his losses and just went ahead in life and career (smart thing to do of course). Thought Thought Channel goes beyond Prevaricator, the fact of the matter is that in the end, Thought Channel can not stand on its own because if Prevaricator was not taught (and I still have issues with this, but oh wells) within Thought Channel, the rest of the manuscript would basically means little to nothing. If you think about this, it tells you something, in other words this shows you that without Prevaricator there is no Thought Channel. The additions to Thought Channel though very good is in the end still additional handling notes for Prevaricator. Let's just say this, if you read the ad copy for Thought Channel 2.0 it clearly states that without having full knowledge of the original Thought Channel, Thought Channel 2.0 would be useless. Now, let's take that same idea and apply it to Thought Channel, if Prevaricator was not learned then Thought Channel would pretty much be useless because there would be no routine, just handling additions to a routine that the reader (if he/she did not already know Prevaricator) would not figure out heads or tails from. In other words, my personal beef with it is that Thought Channel should NEVER have had taught Prevaricator in the first place, it's someone else's work, not just method but an entire routine we are talking about here. Someone else's work should definitely not be taught if not given permission (which initially, when Thought Channel was released, no permission by Redford was given in the first place yet it was still released teaching what is basically Prevaricator). Alas, it's been pointed out to me that permission was finally given in the end for teaching Prevaricator within Thought Channel so all of this in the end is just jibba jabba.

My personal preference has always been excellent gaffed versions of the plot that goes beyond just knowing which hand a object is in. In my experience with the plot it plays MUCH stronger when you can tell the spectator exactly WHICH item they are holding out and where it is located. In essence, this type of method and presentation takes what boils down to 50/50 chance and takes it into the realm of a real demonstration of mind reading because it's no longer chance since you know which object is where amongst several. Again, Proximity is currently the way to go with this especially after you consider how absolutely CLEAN you are with the sleeveless method!
Lord Of The Horses
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Quote:
On 2009-08-21 15:47, parmenion wrote:
I disagree Smile
Jerome has took and expanded previcator to different direction.
I think you don't have read TC to say that Smile


Please, Christophe, don't awake Kissadokie from his sleep. Smile

ARGHHH!.... TOO LATE!...
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
kissdadookie
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Lord of Horses, MagicofT though my friend is posting of his own accord. Though I personally know him and I discussed this topic with him, he is posting on his own here. Though I do wish that he had not in the first place because OBVIOUSLY I knew that yourself and Psidroid would jump on this because you guys obviously have bias and an agenda and I certainly didn't want to end up in the middle of a flame war. Please, refrain from it because it's obviously what you are doing and come on now, if something can stand on it's own, why the need to defend it? I've made my points quite clear elsewhere and I've certainly expressed how I was satisfied that in the end Redford apparently gave permission for Prevaricator to be taught in Thought Channel as Mota has kindly pointed it out to me.

Seriously, you're not playing fair here and pointing fingers when not necessary. I've always held you as a respectable person and this is just bad form. If you have beef with MagicofT then have beef with him, don't draw these ridiculous conclusions. You can check all my previous posts and understand that I seriously do no express bias or really have any in the first place. I've been here long enough and I've posted in a wide variety of topics. Everything is out there plain as day to see. Please do not insult me with insinuations.
Jerome Finley
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Just to clarify a few things here...

First, Redford DID give me permission to publish a basic method for this effect in 'Thought Channel.' To say otherwise would be dishonest or misinformed. I acknowledge and thank Patrick for that.

Second, the basic method for 'Prevaricator' pre-dates JF and Patrick Redford and was around before either of us had ever heard the word 'mentalism.' The full method was (and still is) in active use by my friend and teacher Armando Lucero (and others) over 20 years ago and the full history regarding this method is clearly shown in my manuscript, to the best of my ability.

Third, the differences between 'Thought Channel' and 'Prevaricator' are too numerous to mention. Quite simply they mark the differences between Patrick and myself as performer's and creators and thankfully, are worlds apart (no disrespect to Mr. Redford intended or implied - I'm sure he feels the same way).

Lastly, the same concern Patrick had with 'Thought Channel' is the same one I had initially with his new 'Prevaricator +' (which I'm sure will be excellent, btw) but really folks, it's water under the bridge as far as I am concerned and Patrick has my deepest respects and blessings. Both products stand on their own merit, both are in active use by their creator's and each has similar and different traits to the other. I feel that either or both would be a great investment for anyone seriously interested in the performance of silent object locations and 'which hand' divination.

Do I have 'Prevaricator' to thank for 'Thought Channel?' Of course. This much is acknowledged over and over again IN 'Thought Channel.' Did I have Patrick's blessing? Yes, I did. Is 'Thought Channel' different than 'Prevaricator?' Absolutely.

Fare thee well,
JF
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Lord Of The Horses
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Quote:
On 2009-08-21 22:19, TT2 wrote:
Is 'Thought Channel' different than 'Prevaricator?' Absolutely.


At last... Jerome!

My dear, I thought you were leaving me and a bunch of other brave people to fight against windmills! Smile


Oh... and of course I hope no one will come in and say Armando Lucero is lying on that, just because he finds funny to do that! Smile
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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