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tommeepickles
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I think if it was done with something other than clay, it would lend to a better effect. The problem in my eyes is that people will assume that the clay is flexible so it should walk. If it was done with a weeble-wobble or a lego man it might be better since they are inanimate objects. With also the right hookup, thread would be ok in the effect. Maybe get Bruno Copin and some lego people, we can have a lego army reveal a miniature tiger.
Dan Bernier
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Quote:
On 2010-01-06 01:49, markmiller wrote:
I wonder how different reactions might have been had there not been any advance hype?


I was kinda thinking the same thing, but more along the lines of ,"What would some of the reactions of been if it WASN'T a Paul Harris effect?"

Tommeepickles said,"I think if it was done with something other than clay, it would lend to a better effect."

Like a mouse?
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
ebinary
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Quote:
On 2010-01-06 02:42, tommeepickles wrote:
I think if it was done with something other than clay, it would lend to a better effect. The problem in my eyes is that people will assume that the clay is flexible so it should walk. If it was done with a weeble-wobble or a lego man it might be better since they are inanimate objects. With also the right hookup, thread would be ok in the effect. Maybe get Bruno Copin and some lego people, we can have a lego army reveal a miniature tiger.


Good idea on Lego... there would be no expectation of joints. Those who think Gumby didn't bend his legs need to go back and watch Gumby videos (he used an invisible-skateboard-style movement, with one leg kicking).

However, I have a feeling that the fact that you have a mostly full container of clay participating in the effect may have something to do with the inspectability at the end. Who is going to actually dig all the clay out of a container to see it there is a mechanism at the bottom? The same would not be true of lego, you'd just dump it all out and have an "empty" container to inspect.

I feel this trick would not have had much debate at all if the demo had been available at the same time as the narrative. It's just that we all loved the narrative and the reality doesn't quite measure up, IMHO.

I think what we need is for someone to develop a clay figure that actually does walk, because we all loved the narrative.
Darius666
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I'm gonna come across as a Paul Harris fan boy but this looks ******* amazing. I just don't get some of the negative comments this is getting.

I mean people saying it is gliding, not walking. It is b****y not gliding, stop being stupid! So his legs don't lift up individually, but that doesn't matter. It looks like it walks like a penguin. It looks great and will fry laymen. If someone says to you during a performance "hey, that ain't proper walking" then you should give up magic and take up stamp collecting.

The bag, not an issue with this. You carry everything in it, you take everything out and use it as your 'stage' for the trick. You don't need to justify it, don't even mention it. Any real performer will tell you laymen just don't pick up on this stuff, and even if they did, its examinable!

And can we stop whining about how long the demo took to make, it is an old topic and it's here now and that is all that matters. This demo more than lives up to what I expected.

And lastly, it's Paul Harris for god sake!!!

Darius
Lord Freddie
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It won't fry laymen.

They'll think you have got a magnet.


"Laymen" are not as stupid as you patronisingly assume.
JPK
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Good morning.
When I first heard of this effect I was thinking a Voo-Doo type effect. I came up with some differant ways of presenting it in that style.
After seeing the demo, which I think is quite nice, I thought about the movie "THe Golden Voyage of Sinbad." There is a part where the evil guy (Tom Baker), takes this critter, some kind of goblin/bat thing that appears to be not alive. He drips some of his blood on it and it comes to life. He then send it out so find Sinbad.
I can see John Dough being brought to life in a similar fashion and sent out to find the object selected by a spec.
John Kardel
Havens
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I still love the idea of this effect but it's the walk that still worries me. It reminds me of when I was a kid and I had a pair of magnetic lady bugs, one was placed on a piece of paper or card, the other underneath which is used to move the top one in a jerky fashion.

The idea that the spectator can make the Little Man and he walks is amazing, it's genius but if it looks like magnetic clay (even if it's not) being dragged by magnets hidden in a bag then we have a problem. If only PHP could get one leg to "lurch" forward at a time, even if it doesn't leave the bag, then we could have something amazing on our hands.
Darius666
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Quote:
On 2010-01-06 07:48, Lord Freddie wrote:
It won't fry laymen.

They'll think you have got a magnet.


"Laymen" are not as stupid as you patronisingly assume.


And at what point did I say laymen are stupid? They are much more inteligent than most of the magicians who post on here. The way little man moves does not look like a magnet. If it did, it would just slide across the table. Laymen are not 'stupid' as you put it to come to such conclusions.
Lord Freddie
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Quote:
On 2010-01-06 09:45, MagicMcQuade wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-01-06 07:48, Lord Freddie wrote:
It won't fry laymen.

They'll think you have got a magnet.


"Laymen" are not as stupid as you patronisingly assume.


And at what point did I say laymen are stupid? They are much more inteligent than most of the magicians who post on here. The way little man moves does not look like a magnet. If it did, it would just slide across the table. Laymen are not 'stupid' as you put it to come to such conclusions.


To assume that laymen, who generally don't know who Paul Harris is, would think this is "amazing" is implying that they are stupid.
It DOES not walk, it quite clearly glides and the advertising blurb promises so much more and almost implies that it looks like it has come to life.

I had high hopes for this but when I saw how poor the video (filmed under controlled conditions) was then it made me think how bad it would look in the field.

Although the price is steep, this doesn't look like a workers effect, more like a toy for a bedroom magician to show Mum & Dad and little brother.

If Paul Harris wasn't involved it would be ridiculed from all corners rather than the brown nosing going on here. That demo is bl**dy awful!
Darius666
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If laymen go crazy over a colour change, then I think animating a play dough figure that you just made in front of them will fool them.

As long as their are no restrictions that we do not no about this will go into my professional work.

And why is anything positive perceived as brown nosing? Paul Harris is one of the best creators out there but you have to remember there are three other names on Little Man. Without Paul Harris on board, this would still be awesome.

And can we drop the it's walking/it's gliding argument. If you want to be sad and go and look up definitions it probably isn't technically doing either. It is clearly not gliding. I would say it has kind of a penguin walk in my opinion (idea for a batman theme :-O)
Joshua Barrett
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZzLAsHiGHU
that's animation nowadays. little man was animation around 18th century.
why are magicians not taken seriously? oh yeah cause sliding clay is a miracle
Lord Freddie
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Paul Harris has done some fantastic stuff in the past, correct, but that doesn't mean anything he's involved with is fantastic just because it's HIM.

The advert says that it comes to life and walks "step by step". I don't see the feet move individually of each other. They are together at all times and a bit of clay sliding across a table is not "coming to life".

I really did expect more from this. I really hoped it would be fantastic. But if THAT is the demo then what would it look like for real? No one has actually seen it in person and this is all we have to go by.

A colour change stuns a spectator if it's executed well as there is nowhere for them to go logically. This rubbish has a big arrow pointing at possible methods.


Go ahead, waste your money. And when you open the box you can tell me I was right all along.
Gilgamesh_The_Librarian
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The movement in itself is probably getting a little too much criticism. Whilst I understand the arguments on terminology in the ads and hate misleading ads as much as the next person I can't say I ever expected some kind of claymation effect where one little footsie gets lifted up and moved forward.

Yep he's not technically walking but he isn't gliding either. I think this slight side to side shuffle is probably the best that you could expect ( outside witchcraft) and it is okay.

The issue for me is the clutter. What I am not sure about is, if I was a spectator sat at a table and not viewing this in extreme close up like the demo, then I would see a little 5 or 6 inch tableau of the Little Man stood on a bag walking towards a box, with the lid thrown in for good measure as well. It just has the vibes for me of one of this little magnetic dioramas such as the ice rink christmas dioramas with moving magnetic figures that seem so popular nowadays. It this restricted "stage" for the Little Mans performance that worries me most. However this was laid out in the ad---the bag bit anyway
ebinary
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Quote:
On 2010-01-06 11:22, Joshua Barrett wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZzLAsHiGHU
that's animation nowadays. little man was animation around 18th century.
why are magicians not taken seriously? oh yeah cause sliding clay is a miracle


OMG - now that was amazing. This is without a doubt the first time I've seen robots actually move as well as humans. Better, really. These things make C3PO look worse than Steve Wozniak on Dancing With the Stars.
Potty the Pirate
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I'm surprised that those who think Little Man is "bloody awful", "rubbish", and "a waste of money", can be bothered to post here, since they obviously don't like the effect.
And I'd suggest it rather amateurish to make such harsh criticisms without actually witnessing a live performance, but hey, whatever.
I have no doubts I'll be getting massive reactions from this. Since I'll be filming a lot of walkabout magic this year, expect to see my John Dough in my promo video before long.
I rather like the ungainly "walk". And somehow, I suspect I'll quickly find a way to overcome the "shoe" problem. Animating Lego would be just plain dull compared to a lump of clay. Remember, the clay is moulded in front of the audience. If you did sneak a m****t in there, they didn't see it.
As for clutter, sure it would be nice to be cleaner, and this factor will certainly decide how often I use Little Man.
I will mostly be performing this for family groups, and I'm certain that it will get huge reactions, as I already use something with a similar impact and motivation. Giving away the clay at the end, either rolled into a ball, or the actual figure, is a great give-away and convincer. They can look for m*****s, and check the clay to see if it's "special". Of course, it's just a lump of clay. I kinda think that makes for a FANTASTIC routine, with a great convincer, and something for the kids to remember you.
They will be making Little Men and trying to make them walk for weeks.....
Potty Smile
Dan Bernier
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Quote:
On 2010-01-06 12:00, Potty the Pirate wrote:
And I'd suggest it rather amateurish to make such harsh criticisms without actually witnessing a live performance, but hey, whatever.
Potty Smile


I would suppose that the same thing could be said about some of those who are pro-Little Man without ever seeing a live performance either.

Not all those who are pro-Little Man feel a need to use insults and bash those who have a negative opinion of Little Man, but I have seen a select few who don't seem to understand what this forum is for, and who feel compelled to attack or insult someone for stating their personal opinions.

Find me one person who is not big on Little Man who has resorted to personal insults to those who are pro-Little Man?( and not a post of retaliation either) I can find several posts of those who insult and attack on those who don't like Little Man, or who are not impressed with it. That to me speaks volumes.

There are different opinions that are being discussed for both sides. I have enjoyed reading both sides, except the bullying, and name calling. I think we would all do better if we stop attacking those who share a different opinion.

Dan
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Tom G
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I can't speak for Potty, but in the same vein, I wonder why some people make repeted posts just to put the product down. Is there some sort of agenda or purpose? Are they hoping to sway people? Is there anger because some really like it? To each their own I guess.
Titanas
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Just watched the robot dancing.
It was amazing, BUT... These robots price is not $300 and they are not examinable.

I loved the way Little Man looks and the fact that you create LM with the spectator and its examinable at the end is a huge plus.
Its funny how some people complaining about the walking as if they ve seen another man from clay walking better.
Bests,
Titanas
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runawayjag
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The unfortunate thing is that the action looks like a magnet is making the little doll shuffle, even if it is not, and that is exactly what spectators will think. So, I think the mystery element is gone, no matter how clever the actual method really is. It's often been said that a laymen doesn't need to know exactly how an effect is done. He only needs to know when it was done to erase the mystery element. Well, this seems to be a case where just thinking he knows how it's done will take away the mystery.

So, that leaves the performer to create an entertaining routine around the weak, but charming action and add an element of mystery to it. For example, in the demo video the "mystery" message appears after the flash paper is lit. Spectators would be fooled by that.

To this day I still perform the Bionic Bunny, which I had Anverdi make for me decades ago (it is not the same as the Anverdi electronic bunnies you may have seen on the internet.) Now, obviously, it is no mystery how the little bunny moves about. I mean he looks like a mechanical miniature techno robot. But, it is a mystery how he finds the chosen card. Another similar effect is the classic Snake Basket. The actual animation of the snake is no mystery. It is what he does that adds the magic.

What seems to have made this such a disappointment is that rather than simply saying a little clay man is molded in front of the audience and then he walks about, the ad suggested a more impressive effect suggesting he "comes alive." In fact, it specifically states, "..a lump of clay comes to life..." Now, of course we didn't really think that means he eats, sleeps, drives a car, pays bills, etc, but that statement does definitely suggest a little more animation than a shuffle. If the Snake Basket had been advertised as a toy snake being shown and examined and then tossed into a basket and then the performer imbues him with life, I'm sure much more animation than a simple up and down motion with an occasional turn would have been expected by potential buyers.

I think this is one prop that is really reliant on the performer's presentational skills to make it good.
Liam Montier
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Quote:
On 2010-01-06 12:38, Gospel Dan wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-01-06 12:00, Potty the Pirate wrote:
And I'd suggest it rather amateurish to make such harsh criticisms without actually witnessing a live performance, but hey, whatever.
Potty Smile


I would suppose that the same thing could be said about some of those who are pro-Little Man without ever seeing a live performance either.

Not all those who are pro-Little Man feel a need to use insults and bash those who have a negative opinion of Little Man, but I have seen a select few who don't seem to understand what this forum is for, and who feel compelled to attack or insult someone for stating their personal opinions.

Find me one person who is not big on Little Man who has resorted to personal insults to those who are pro-Little Man?( and not a post of retaliation either) I can find several posts of those who insult and attack on those who don't like Little Man, or who are not impressed with it. That to me speaks volumes.

There are different opinions that are being discussed for both sides. I have enjoyed reading both sides, except the bullying, and name calling. I think we would all do better if we stop attacking those who share a different opinion.

Dan


I suspect it partially comes through frustration, of reading the same few authors posting the same negative opinions that have been made over and over. I don't think anything really offensive has been said, it's more petty to be honest.

There shouldn't be a "them and us" attitude to this - either your performing character and style will mean this effect is for you, or it will mean it won't. There is nothing right or wrong about either situation.

I like Ben Harris's idea of the dust jacket that was mentioned earlier. Perhaps the Little Man can be placed on a pile of books, and walk towards one - to reveal a selected book? Or maybe we can make him hold a pen, and mark a book or page as he walks and/or turns?

When I've got the cash together, I'm looking forward to using this to perform my Visual Voodoo routine, that was in Reel Magic a while back. Until then, here's hoping it's not far from release. Well, some of us anyway xD
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