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Dan Bernier
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A very good post Liam Montier. Point well taken. Smile
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Joshua Barrett
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Quote:
On 2010-01-06 14:01, Liam Montier wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-01-06 12:38, Gospel Dan wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-01-06 12:00, Potty the Pirate wrote:
And I'd suggest it rather amateurish to make such harsh criticisms without actually witnessing a live performance, but hey, whatever.
Potty Smile


I would suppose that the same thing could be said about some of those who are pro-Little Man without ever seeing a live performance either.

Not all those who are pro-Little Man feel a need to use insults and bash those who have a negative opinion of Little Man, but I have seen a select few who don't seem to understand what this forum is for, and who feel compelled to attack or insult someone for stating their personal opinions.

Find me one person who is not big on Little Man who has resorted to personal insults to those who are pro-Little Man?( and not a post of retaliation either) I can find several posts of those who insult and attack on those who don't like Little Man, or who are not impressed with it. That to me speaks volumes.

There are different opinions that are being discussed for both sides. I have enjoyed reading both sides, except the bullying, and name calling. I think we would all do better if we stop attacking those who share a different opinion.

Dan


I suspect it partially comes through frustration, of reading the same few authors posting the same negative opinions that have been made over and over. I don't think anything really offensive has been said, it's more petty to be honest.

There shouldn't be a "them and us" attitude to this - either your performing character and style will mean this effect is for you, or it will mean it won't. There is nothing right or wrong about either situation.

I like Ben Harris's idea of the dust jacket that was mentioned earlier. Perhaps the Little Man can be placed on a pile of books, and walk towards one - to reveal a selected book? Or maybe we can make him hold a pen, and mark a book or page as he walks and/or turns?

When I've got the cash together, I'm looking forward to using this to perform my Visual Voodoo routine, that was in Reel Magic a while back. Until then, here's hoping it's not far from release. Well, some of us anyway xD




the them and us things seems to happen a lot here.

someone asked why someone who does not like it with come here.
well this is a magic discussion board, so I come here as others do, for the enjoyment of discussion.

I think what happens is that when some one does like something, and someone else does not people feel like their likes or beliefs are being attacked or insulted so it gets personal, which is rather ironic with the anonymous nature of internet discussion
MarianoG
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I think this is a cool effect, for the right type of audience.
blackbogle
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I smiled when I saw the demo. This got my creative juices flowing. This could be fun, mysterious or both depending on the presentation.
The spectators can get involved in making, dressing and naming the little man allowing for lots of interaction between magician and audience. The animation of the little man could result in laughter, aahs, head scratching, etc. If the method is obvious or guessable, there is still a revelation to come via flash paper, object etc.
As MarionoG commented, for the right audience this could be cool, especially with the right presentation. Of course in the wrong environment with unimaginative presentation this could be awful. I guess rather than relying on a Youtube demo it will be interesting to hear laypeople reactions from people who purchased this effect to see if this is value for money.
BIlly James
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This really didn't seem to be my cup o' tea from the onset. However I was interested to see how it would play out.

To my mind the ad copy (and expectations) were about an effect that would lead the spectators to say -

"Wow, that clay man can move!"

...as opposed to...

"Wow, he is somehow moving that clay man!"

With that said, best of luck to those who choose to take this clay moving effect to the miracle level.

:)
Ollie1235
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Quote:
On 2010-01-06 17:50, BIlly James wrote:
This really didn't seem to be my cup o' tea from the onset. However I was interested to see how it would play out.

To my mind the ad copy (and expectations) were about an effect that would lead the spectators to say -

"Wow, that clay man can move!"

...as opposed to...

"Wow, he is somehow moving that clay man!"

With that said, best of luck to those who choose to take this clay moving effect to the miracle level.

:)


Eloquently said Billy. When you consider the restrictions, it doesn't hold much over many other PK effects, at a much lower price.
Larry Davidson
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I agree 100% with what runawayjag says above.

At the bottom line, I believe that audiences will not be astonished by the walking and instead will view it as an amusing puzzle. For the effect to be a worker, it needs a very entertaining presentation and the walking needs to be a means to an end instead of an end itself (just as Del's mouse effect was incredibly entertainng, with the mouse walking as a means to an end). Walking to light the flash paper, which reveals the spectator's initials, is one example.

Is it worth $300? It will be to some and it won't be to others, because worth is subjective. Anything is worth nothing more or less than what someone's willing to pay for it.
markmiller
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Larry mentioned Del's mouse. I think the standard pitch item Magic Mouse is more animated and entertaining than Little Man.
Hansel
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Hello:
Im following this effect as the first ad that appears in Genni. I search for videos and I don't I found anything at that moment, but I need to confess that been a Paul Harris fan saved my $300 for get the effect.
I never been a fan of pre- orders, so I wait...and what I receive in the DEMO was " Especially Dissapointing".
The effect was not bad, but the description of the effect was ANOTHER KIND OF THING...probably very beauty to be true.
Im talking with my pal Reynold Alexander, another fan of Paul Harris and interested in the effect, and he look the effect with other eyes, with objective eyes...and he like it, Maybe don't buy it ( That was the idea of the Ad ) But if we see the effect deleting out of our minds the Ad in magazines...the effect is not bad and I Agree with him.
Im pretty sure that all the people that feels dissapointed with the demo ( IM incluided ) are people that have other expectations based on the AD description.
If they put in a Ad That the little man can walk...but in top of a bag...they don't receive many pre orders...also they use the word STEPS not SLIDES!
As always all my best...
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PHSIS
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Hello Hansel

I am so sorry that you and others thought the ad was misleading. Many people interpret how little man moves as a walking action. This is how the mummy and frankenstein walk..and to Paul (obviously) this is how he thought a little man made of clay might walk. We really had no idea that the word "walk" and "step" would be such an issue. Paul always runs his ad copy by a handful of magicians to see if it reads accurately. And in this case it was approved. But as we're seeing here there is definately a wide spread of opinion on what those words mean to different people.

As far as him walking on the bag. That was specifically mentioned in the ad. My apologies if it wasn't written in a way that was clear to you.

So again, from Paul and myself..we stand by this effect 100%. We'll be showing you a lot more of little Man's potential in a more elaborate demo which will be released down the road. And for anyone who pre-ordered from PHP and is not completely happy with Little Man we encourage you to cancel your order and we will be more than happy to refund you money.

Deepy appreciate all the good thoughts and concerns that this demo has brought up. We will address as much of it as possible in the next demo (with live audiences)so you can see what this Little guy can do.

happies to all,

Janet (A.G.)
Hansel
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Janet:
Thanks for the response and all my best wishes,
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Silvio Solaris
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I agree 100% with runawayjag's post.

In our millenium of rapid advancing technology and information flow, a clayfigure shuffling a few steps on top of a thick, black bag does not seem very magical at all. Paul Harris or not...

Let's say you would really have magical powers and could animate a 'lump of clay'...How would you do it? Like in the demo shown? I seriously doubt it.

Let's take a 'simple' effect for example: The Floating Bill. You borrow a bill from a spectator, crumple it into a ball (or not) and levitate it under their nose. Furthermore, you step away from it and it keeps hovering at the same spot.
Now you move back to it and wave your hands above the top, under the bottom and at the sides. It now floates to the floor and back into your hands. The audience gasps because in their eyes you just performed a real miracle with 'their' bill...

That's one of my favourite illusions and I had people tell me afterwards that they got goosebumps while watching it.

This is the magic I like to perform and reactions/emotions I am striving for.
My magic has to evoke total astonishment in the spectator. If I can't achieve that I have failed. If it's the performance I have to work harder on my part to get the effect to the level I am aiming for. If it is concerning the technical part of the effect (gaff/method/look) and I can't improve upon it...well then I don't purchase/perform it at all . Simple as that.

See, my universe might be different then yours. John Dough's universe perhaps differs from mine. Others might enjoy performing Little Man and get great reactions from their audience... I made my decision based on the technical aspect for now. If I see certain improvements that fit my parameters I might change my mind and give 'him' a try.
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The great Gumbini
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You know a doctor would have a blast with this thread. Just a few things to consider as far as our Little Man is concerned. In order for him to "walk" as has been defined here he would need KNEES so he can bend them. Little Man has no knees---in real life if you have no knees you will shuffle like this and to you it would be walking.

But lets also remember another point. Now think about this. If you are really bringing to life a lump of clay do you really believe it will walk perfectly? When we send people into space for months on end with zero gravity and return them home have you ever seen the acclamation they go through to relearn how to walk? Now just picture for a moment a piece of CLAY that has NEVER been in a shape of a Little Man and has NEVER been alive and has never walked (and to top it off has NO KNEES, NO ANKLES and No experience in walking) how do you honestly picture this piece of clay walking? Remember we as Magicians HAVE to see in our minds how this would look in real life PRIOR to us ever being able to sell the idea to an audience.

I believe in the right hands this effect has great potential. But I would recommend it for people who have that certain imagination and can perform it in a way that people will believe they are seeing a piece of clay come to life. Always remember a very important rule in Magic and Mentalism---If you don't believe in what you are doing neither will your audience. This effect is a dream come true in the right hands.


Good magic to all,


Eric
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Quote:
On 2010-01-06 07:48, Lord Freddie wrote:
It won't fry laymen.

They'll think you have got a magnet.


I completely agree. Regardless of how it is done and even if they find no evidence, they will think that you somehow hid the magnet.

However, if people realize that you are making Rocky the Raccoon move, the presentation is not lessened. Because the presentation is so good, who cares if it is real or robot, or stuffed. I think the same with little man. They will have a great presentation and the little man will add, even if they figure they know how it's done. And for those who have no guesses...well they are going to tell their friends that a magician made a little clay man walk (they won't say slide or glide, especially if you say "look he is walking" to your spectators - I highly doubt you will get into a discussion over semantics or the dictionary's definition of the word walk).
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Scott F. Guinn
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Quote:
On 2010-01-06 06:52, MagicMcQuade wrote:
Im gonna come across as a Paul Harris fan boy but this looks ******* amazing. I just don't get some of the negative comments this is getting.

I mean people saying it is gliding, not walking. It is b****y not gliding, stop being stupid! So his legs don't lift up individually, but that doesn't matter. It looks like it walks like a penguin. It looks great and will fry laymen. If someone says to you during a performance "hey, that ain't proper walking" then you should give up magic and take up stamp collecting.

The bag, not an issue with this. You carry everything in it, you take everything out and use it as your 'stage' for the trick. You don't need to justify it, don't even mention it. Any real performer will tell you laymen just don't pick up on this stuff, and even if they did, its examinable!

And can we stop whining about how long the demo took to make, it is an old topic and it's here now and that is all that matters. This demo more than lives up to what I expected.

And lastly, it's Paul Harris for god sake!!!

Darius

Excuse me, Darius, but I am a "real performer" and have been for 30 years, which, at least by the looks of your avatar, is longer than you've been alive. Until a few years ago, when I went into semi-retirement, I made 100% of my living performing in the real world, at restaurants 4 nights per week as well as several hundred non-restaurant gigs per year. As one of those "stupid" people who posted a "negative comment", I find your post insulting and offensive. I stand by my previous statement: I wouldn't give $30 for this item, much less $300. I have a problem with the setup, and I think the "walking" looks like the vibrating magnetic board from the old electric football game in the 70s. So according to you, I must not be a real performer, but rather a moron who should take up stamp collecting.

If you put something on the market, you have to be prepared for some criticism. I know this from personal experience, as I have sold a number of my items over the years. Some people loved them, some hated them. Not every item that comes out can be "the bestesr ever", now can it?

Further, there is nothing in the rules and etiquette of The Magic Café that says people can not voice a negative opinion about a product. I know a little something about those rules, having formerly been the Chief of Staff here for a number of years, in charge of enforcing the rules.

There is however, a rule about calling people names like "stupid". I suggest you phrase your posts more carefully in the future.
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Dan Bernier
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Lets use Frankenstein as an example since his name has come up a few times. When he walks he lifts his feet. His legs are stiff, but his feet lift up, one foot at a time. I thinks that is what most were expecting to see. Not knees bending, or the clay actually coming to life.

The first link below isn't of Frankenstein, but it shows knees don't need to bend to actually walk. I'm using this guy as an example because he demonstates more to the image of what most would think how Frankenstein walks.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseac......=6500065

In my opinion, no one played a better Frankenstein than the great Karloff. The following links shows Karloff as Frankenstein. Notice how he walks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTNN5h8CG_Y

Also, the whole walking and taking steps is just one aspect. The other of course is that as what many have already have stated, "The machanics doesn't look magical"

I have shown the demo to some friends who are not magicians, and although they thought it was cool, they quickly were saying the clay guy was gliding because of magnets or strings. They may very well be wrong, but because they believed they knew how it was done, there was no wonder or magical moment for them.

The last link I provide shows a baby's first steps. I couldn't resist because of the cute factor of this one. Smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr0bXVlBd3A&feature=related
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Potty the Pirate
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[quote]On 2010-01-06 12:38, Gospel Dan wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-01-06 12:00, Potty the Pirate wrote:
And I'd suggest it rather amateurish to make such harsh criticisms without actually witnessing a live performance, but hey, whatever.
Potty Smile

I would suppose that the same thing could be said about some of those who are pro-Little Man without ever seeing a live performance either.
[quote]...this from someone who has little to say, but feels it needs to be repeated ad nauseam. The difference between harsh criticism and positive thinking is that one is very negative, and the other positive. Where some can't see the woods for the trees, others can see instantly the appeal and comedy of Little Man. To use terms like "rubbish" and "waste of money" is insulting to the manufacturer and to those who have enough experience to know that this will play well for them. Professional magicians should have more sense than that - and as many here at the Café are amateurs, I was merely observing that it's likely these comments came not from professional workers, but from part-timers and amateurs. Am I wrong? Enlighten me.
Quote:
Not all those who are pro-Little Man feel a need to use insults and bash those who have a negative opinion of Little Man, but I have seen a select few who don't seem to understand what this forum is for, and who feel compelled to attack or insult someone for stating their personal opinions.
Dan

I don't bash anyone, merely stating the facts, and my opinions. It's absolutely those who are anti-Little Man who are mud-slinging, and I don't understand why. There are plenty of awful effects out there to be slated - but this isn't one of them. So if I put up a demo with laughter, gasps, and shrieks, the effect gathering a large group, and playing brilliantly, will some of you chage your opinion?
Regarding m****s, the Little Man is handed out at the end for examination. With any other effect, this is sufficient to disprove the method. Why not so in this case? Perhaps some folks just can't bear to admit they like this effect, because they've spent so much time criticising Paul Harris before the demo even went up. I guess if you have so much negativity, it's hard to believe that some folks might actually make Little Man into a highlight of their close-up act.
I love the floating dollar bill, but I'd bet if you showed both effects (well presented) to a spectator, they'd be more impressed with "Little Man". The Floating Bill is "obviously" done with t****d - although the spectators never saw it, they will still suspect that's how it's done - so how does it differ in that respect to Little Man?
For the record, I have performed magic for 44 years, so I also have some experience of what I'm talking about.
Potty Smile
Dan Bernier
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It's okay Potty, I'm here for you buddy. Smile
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surryhills
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Quote:
On 2010-01-07 02:35, Scott F. Guinn wrote:
Excuse me, Darius, but I am a "real performer" and have been for 30 years, which, at least by the looks of your avatar, is longer than you've been alive. Until a few years ago, when I went into semi-retirement, I made 100% of my living performing in the real world, at restaurants 4 nights per week as well as several hundred non-restaurant gigs per year. As one of those "stupid" people who posted a "negative comment", I find your post insulting and offensive. I stand by my previous statement: I wouldn't give $30 for this item, much less $300. I have a problem with the setup, and I think the "walking" looks like the vibrating magnetic board from the old electric football game in the 70s. So according to you, I must not be a real performer, but rather a moron who should take up stamp collecting.

If you put something on the market, you have to be prepared for some criticism. I know this from personal experience, as I have sold a number of my items over the years. Some people loved them, some hated them. Not every item that comes out can be "the bestesr ever", now can it?

Further, there is nothing in the rules and etiquette of The Magic Café that says people can not voice a negative opinion about a product. I know a little something about those rules, having formerly been the Chief of Staff here for a number of years, in charge of enforcing the rules.

There is however, a rule about calling people names like "stupid". I suggest you phrase your posts more carefully in the future.


Word!
Dan Bernier
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Smile

Potty said, "I don't bash anyone, merely stating the facts, and my opinions."

I personally respect your opinions, and don't take anything you say personal, even if I don't always agree with your facts or opinions. But, I can only suggest that you may show some respect to others opinions, even if you don't like them, or feel disgusted by them.

I also don't think that because someone who performs magic part-time or maybe an amatuer makes them less important, or their opinion any less valid, weak, or without merit. You of all people should know that.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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