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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » The Big Black Book - Paul Osborne (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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magicguy6
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Is mis made lady in this book? Also, could anyone name a few other illusions in this book?

Thanks.
ClintonMagus
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Mismade Girl is available as a separate plan and in the Osborne Classic Illusions Volume 2.

Here's the Black Book list, copied from the Paul Osborne "sticky" posting at the top of the Grand Illusions topic:

Osborne, Paul:Dreadful Dreamhouse, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Hinduspension: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Dove Cannon: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Bride of the Blades, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Shutter Bug, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:One That Got Away, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Flower Girl Illusion, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Bennett's Satellite Dish: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Threeway Split: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:In a Flash: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Divido: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Magical Puppet Show: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Fantastik Frames: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:The Stocks of Peril, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:The Black Art Theater, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:The Temple of Death, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Shipwrecked: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Weathermakin' Machine: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Paper Doll Illusion, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Happy Holidays. The Junior De Kolta Chair: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:The Princess of Baktar, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Attacub: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Aquarium Illusion, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Bunny Box, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Push Together Boxes, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Crystal Case, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Dalton Boys, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Dracula Escapes!: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Squeezaway Gal Part One, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Squeezeway Gal Part Two, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Revised Strobeka, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Just Passing Through: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Surrounded Artist's Dream: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Sawing a Dove in Half Head X: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Surrounded Vampire Illusion, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Go Ape: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Clown House, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Santazamm: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Trolley Illusion, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Wish Box: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:See Section: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Pull Through Levitation, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Zig Zag Improvements, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Dream Dinner, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Split Personalities: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Book of Illusion, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Get the Point: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Where is She?: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Frame of Life, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Fabulous Frosty Guy, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Pick a Card: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Passherby: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Phenomenon: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Glassation: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Out of a Hat: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Gender Bender, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Changeroo: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:In the Twinkling of an Eye: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Self Contained Asrah, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Vanishing Girl and Chair: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Stretching a Good Thing Too Far: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Salter's Knife Vanish: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Head of Urus, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Vanishing Girl and Trunk: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Hatbox Illusion, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Goodbye Girl Illusion, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Cannon Illusion Part One, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Cannon Illusion Part Two, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Cannon Illusion Part Three, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Here Comes Santa Claus: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Caterpillar Illusion, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Pharaoh Returns, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:She's Come Undone: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Traveling Magic Stage, A: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Clockworks Mystery, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Jack in the Box Mystery, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Torture Chest of Burhee, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Ching's Chest: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Lion and The Cobra, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Reconstructed Man, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Passkey Illusion, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Five Days of Christmas, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Bim Bam Box: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Haberdash-Her The Crusher Illusion: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Marvelation: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Sawing a Woman in Half: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Double From Nothing: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Dream of a Sultan: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Bewildering Boxes, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Space Transport: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Laser Cannon: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Laser Cannon Box, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Laser Cannon Platform, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Santa Screens, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Roll of the Dice, A: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Skyscraper Illusion, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Little Box from Borneo, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Multi Media-The Radio: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Multi Media-The Television: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Queen of the Silver Dollar: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Dream Machine, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Plunger, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Dream Seat, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Witch's Cauldron, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Chair Suspension Plus: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Great Santa Switch, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Unbelievable Oriental Screens, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Dena-The Exhibitron: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:March of the Toy Soldiers: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Egyptian Table of Death, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Chicago Fire, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Boy and His Car, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Decapatarium, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Home for the Holidays: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:World's Greatest Magicians The Spirit Post, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Lady from the Light, The: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
Osborne, Paul:Out of Thin Air: Illusion System The First Collection (Black Book)
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Blair Marshall
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Boy, seems like everyone is looking for Mis-made plans!! I'm even getting e-mails from folks I don't know asking for (photo)copies of the plans. (Request refused, of course.)

What's up with this illusion all of a sudden??

B
Laszlo Csizmadi
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Blair Marshall
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Yep, I've passed them on to Paul direct. I always like to support the originator if I can.

B
Frank Simpson
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Quote:
On 2009-09-08 21:13, Blair Marshall wrote:
Boy, seems like everyone is looking for Mis-made plans!! I'm even getting e-mails from folks I don't know asking for (photo)copies of the plans. (Request refused, of course.)

What's up with this illusion all of a sudden??

B


Yeah, I got the same email. I immediately dismissed it as spam... I sure hope no one helps this person out!
Ray Pierce
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Quote:
On 2009-09-08 22:09, Blair Marshall wrote:
Yep, I've passed them on to Paul direct. I always like to support the originator if I can.

B


Blair, I admire the sentiment. But isn't the originator of Mis Made, Chuck Jones? Has Paul paid ANY compensation to Chuck for the use of his innovation? Or has he paid anything to anyone for the use of thease ideas that he's selling the plans to for profit? I was always so thrilled that Paul worked out some deal to release these plans to the community, until I head that in many cases he hasn't done anything but draw them up on his own with no compensation or remuneration to the originators. Maybe someone can give me some information to the contrary as I would love to find out there is some fairness to this.
Ray Pierce
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Chezaday
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There are two sides to every story .. in this case, maybe three. Anyway .. many of the illusions offered by Paul do fall under the category of public domain. Most have been published in some form or another. Paul has given a fresh look to many of the classics of magic. I don't think he's getting rich off selling plans .. the market for magic is very small.

As far as the Mis-Made Lady goes .. this is not as simple as it seems to construct. Sure there are four boxes .. but then there is some metal work and let's just say the gimmicks for the illusion won't be that simple to obtain. Unless the prop breaks down for packing, it will take up considerable space in a van. It still is one of my favorites and a fun one to perform.

Maybe I should write a book next time ..

Steve
Ray Pierce
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Quote:
On 2009-09-09 02:58, Chezaday wrote:
There are two sides to every story .. in this case, maybe three. Anyway .. many of the illusions offered by Paul do fall under the category of public domain. Most have been published in some form or another. Paul has given a fresh look to many of the classics of magic. I don't think he's getting rich off selling plans .. the market for magic is very small.


I understand and agree with what you've said. Now that being said, what about all the illusions that are not public domain? I just always assumed that Paul worked out some arraingement with the originator to publish these, but I'm thinking now that's not the case. If someone gave the rights to publish them somewhere else, does that make it ok to republish them on his own or does he still need to get secondary rights or something along those lines? I really don't know what the legalities of this are. Maybe someone can help us here.

So if there are two or three sides as you've said... what are the other sides? The only side I've heard is that he just takes the ideas and draws them up and sells them. To be fair... I would really like to hear the other side to balance it out.

Only by listening to both sides can we really begin to determine the equity in the situation.
Ray Pierce
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Blair Marshall
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Ray,

I agree with your sentiment re..Paul's material. I will pm you leter with an interesting (at least to me) story.

B
ClintonMagus
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I once wrote Paul to ask about the "legitimacy" of his plans, but I never received a response.

I know that he once published a set of plans for Interlude that were later pulled from the market. Did he ever publish a set of Origami plans?
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AmazingEARL
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Quote:
On 2009-09-09 07:37, ClintonMagus wrote:
I once wrote Paul to ask about the "legitimacy" of his plans, but I never received a response.


I did. Unless there's a patent on it, he claims he can do whatever he wants with an illusion, regardless of who invented it...put it in a book, sell a blueprint or even publish it in a magazine as he sees fit. He needs no one's permission.

Quote:
I know that he once published a set of plans for Interlude that were later pulled from the market.


Yes, I have actually examined them. However, Osborne claimed in the same email that those plans don't exist.

Quote:
Did he ever publish a set of Origami plans?


I understand from certain sources that he has indeed drawn some, but not offered them for sale.

Osborne even specifically mentioned Chuck Jones' Mismade Girl in that email:
"In the seventies I published the Mismade plans. Do you know how many people claimed to have invented that prop? With no paperwork nothing can be proved."

In his eyes, that apparently makes it fair game for exploitation.

Dan Wolfe
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"We build AMAZING things"
JVHarrison
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A few thoughts. Providing building plans is very different from actually building and performing an illusion. Ethical considerations aside, unless there is a design patent in place, one is free to draw and publish plans to just about anything (again, it's the actual construction of the drawn items that violates an inventor's rights). In terms of ethics, I'm ambivalent on this point, but see the arguments both ways. Finally, I had been under the impression that there is a longstanding feud over just who invented the mismade, with both Chuck Jones and Les Smith claiming to have done so -- if anyone knows more about this, I would appreciate the clarification.
Ray Pierce
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Chuck Jones created the Mis Made, Les said that it was just a variation on the Chinaman's dream which was a version of a stack of boxes so they had the rights to build the effect since it was just a variation on their idea. Of course that idea certainly had nothing to do with the actual rearranging of the boxes and the body of the effect that Chuck created including the details with the double doors, fakes and the blades.

It would be like saying that a Zig-Zag is just a variation of a blade box so it's up for grabs.

I would love to hear any other views on this but that's what I've heard from this side.
Ray Pierce
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Ray Pierce
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Quote:
On 2009-09-09 16:15, JVHarrison wrote:
In terms of ethics, I'm ambivalent on this point, but see the arguments both ways.


Well... If there is value in the secret to an effect, then there is a value that is lost by the revealing of that effect.

I know this is a long standing issue on the monetary loss due to exposure with many people weighing in on both sides. I think it's different if you're looking in as an outsider just looking for ideas or if you're a creator that derives at least a part of your income by creating these ideas. If you spend weeks, months or years creating an idea, and someone finds out how it's done and publishes the method, is there an ethical dilemma. Most would say yes. Certainly public domain illusions are fair game, but to take something otherwise would seem to be wrong to most reasonable individuals.

Can he come up with some justification to make himself feel better about the intellectual theft... of course.

It's been said that if you can position yourself as a victim, you can justify ripping off the system as you feel a sense of entitlement due to being "wronged". Sadly this philosophy is pervasive in today's society which accounts for a vast majority of problems which can neither be adequately addressed or remedied in this post.

Is it really right? I think most know the answer.
Ray Pierce
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JoeC
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Quote:
On 2009-09-09 16:43, Ray Pierce wrote:
Chuck Jones created the Mis Made, Les said that it was just a variation on the Chinaman's dream which was a version of a stack of boxes so they had the rights to build the effect since it was just a variation on their idea. Of course that idea certainly had nothing to do with the actual rearranging of the boxes and the body of the effect that Chuck created including the details with the double doors, fakes and the blades.

I would love to hear any other views on this but that's what I've heard from this side.


There is more to this then you are posting. Bev Bergeron also claims to have invented this exclusively for Mark Wilson, PRIOR to Chuck Jones coming up with his version. Bev even has this on the cover of this lecture notes.

Anyone wanting to build and perform this illusion, I would not worry that you are infringing on a Chuck Jones original creation.
Ray Pierce
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I know Bev came up with an illusion and in fact many illusions for Mark. I still believe Chuck is the recognized creator of the effect most refer to as the Mismade Girl as noted in dozens of sources both online and in print.

I'm sure there will always be debate in magic on the creation of EVERY effect as evidenced here and it is always good to site sources and evidence to help get to the root of each case.

If Bev has a clear plan or drawing for the Mismade with the double doors, body fakes and the like with a timeline, It would be helpful to redo the wikipedia and all the other sources online to reflect that new finding.
Ray Pierce
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videoman
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I have always believed that Chuck Jones invented the Mis-Made Girl and it certainly would seem that way from the myriad of sources listing him as the creator. So I'm still going to give the nod to Chuck although I have no absolute proof to confirm that.

As far as Les Smith having had rights to it, it reminds me of the Zig-Zag scandal and something which seems all too common these days. If you really want to borrow an idea, you can usually find something vaguely similar in an old magic book if you look hard enough and then claim that that was where you got your inspiration, or that is really an old idea and the "new creation" isn't really new.

In regards to Paul Osbourne plans, it has been a long time since I have seen any, but I certainly don't recall seeing any caveat that certain illusions could not legally be constructed from the plans. I mean couldn't someone who built a prop illegally from the plans just claim that they were only following the plans and assumed they had rights to use them. I wouldn't think that the person drawing up the plans could realistically claim that they honestly never intended for anyone to actually use the building plans to build what is contained in the plans. That seems absurd. But a lot of absurd things happen all the time so it wouldn't surprise me. I always wondered how Paul got the rights to sell the plans to certain effects, and I assumed he must have gotten the rights because I never heard any magicians complaining about theft in his case, while being quick to cry theft in so many other cases.

Bill
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I seem to recall a story that when David Copperfield wanted to use the Zimmerman /Wakeling base on a TV special many years ago, he paid Dick Zimmerman a license /usage fee, just as Doug Henning did in his prior use.
It was then brought up that Osborne had already printed up a double base in his monthly column in Genii and people drew inference from that... that building such a prop was now available for the price of a Genii magazine! Strangely some thought, here was no hue and cry from the Zimmerman camp.

That being the case, there was some discussion as to what David was paying a license for, other than the goodwill of MR. Zimmerman.
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markmiller
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Some feel that Osbourne simply redrew other's ideas and for the most part those Genii plans were stylized, but unauthorized, contributions.
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