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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
At the request of Darkwing, let's kick the tires on this and see where it goes.
Most people have a hard time looking at silk magic in the context of a routine. How to combine the various effects, make the effects build and climax and the right time and blocking considerations. I know JNeal did a large silk act at one time. He told me a few things about it but I am sure that there is much more to learn on this. Maybe how to organize and reset the act. Selection of the color of silks. How to handle to produced silks. I will offer my take on my basic silk production routine I have used for over 25 years. It has changed a little over the years but here are the basics. I show an custom phantom tube I made. I do not cap the ends with paper but just flash the tube and go into the production. I have 12-18" silks loaded in the tube in three repeating color sequences. Pink, Yellow, lime green and orange. This allows the most contrast between the silk colors and allows me to know when I get to the last silk. The ends of the silks are twisted around each other to cause the next silk to pop up. I use a lot of facial expressions to sell the silk productions. For laymen, it plays well. After the 18" silk, I have a 36" tie dye I produce. At one time, I took that silk put it into a top hat and changed it to a 6' silk in the same design. I then produced a Starr Firebowl to Doves which I made a flower load for. I took the fire out the act 20 years ago. The top hat went out 15 years ago. The 36" silk is a custom tie dye in Neon colors which make it really stand out. The 18" silks are placed down prior the the 36" production. I show and display the 36" silk. I retrieve the 18" silks and steal a 36" to 6' silk fountain. I add the 36" to the 18". I then run the production of the silk fountain and finish it by producing an 18 bloom sleeve bouquet. The bouquet is placed into my background scenery and the silk fountain is left in view on the front of the same scenery. Maybe this will give some others ideas on flow and productions. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
Richard is exactly right, I have done several large silk productions at various times in my act. I used to do a silk opener as well. Tomorrow I'll post some of what I did, why I did it and what the nuances were. Also how and why it evolved.
Richard is correct as well when he states that it is all about the build, blocking and transitions Thanks Richard for sharing and remembering those golden days!
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1850 Posts |
See, I knew you guys could do it.
Personally, I would like to see more of this type of great magic. It is beautiful, eye catching and an overwhelming sight to behold. Richard and I have talked about this before. I think he quoted Mr. Marvyn Roy (Mr. Electric) saying that most magicians do not have the patience to do a silk act anymore because of the set-up. I am sorry to say I have to agree with him. I had the privilege to talk with Fantaisio at the IBM convention about his silk routines and how much I admired his approach to silk magic. He actually said the same thing about great silk acts and that other than what is coming from some Asian magicians, you just don't see good silk acts anymore. Richard, thank you for sharing your routine with us. I am look forward to seeing Mr. Neal’s post. You guys have just inspired me to go to my office and get my silks and see what I can come up with. I am going to do it right now. C'mon Bob you have got to chime in! |
JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
I'll go into detail tomorrow about silk sequences, but DarkWing, you just mentioned Marvyn Roy and I just got back from visiting with him this past Wednesday and one of the things we did was review the original 8mm movies (shot by Alan Wakeling) of Marvyn's jewelry act. There were two different silk productions used over the years. One was the Haunted chimneys with some kicker loads and the other a phantom tube with added loads.
The loading was along the lines of Ade Duval's handling and they were very SMOOTH! Marvyn was famous for popularizing the Eric Lewis Diminishing Silk production, (minus the diminishing part!), but his handling of the tubes was very well routined. Of course, it helps to have had Carol all those years! Marvyn and Alan both were heavily influenced by many performers including Jack Gwynne. I mention Jack Gwynne because his handling of the Bowl productions and the stack steal( and revelation) are parallel to the concepts used in a extended quantity silk production. anyway, thanks for mentioning Marvyn and.... more later!
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-13 02:06, JNeal wrote: Having spent many years watching Marvyn in the wings (most of them along side you!) I can only expand on the thinking and nuance that went into the multiple kicker loads. To see him just keep loading time after time with each one at a different beat in the misdirective cycle was something to behold. For anyone that hasn't really seen a lot of their work or had a chance to study it in detail, look at any of the old Ed Sullivan shows that have been released with them on it or Joe Stevens has a great DVD of Marvyn & Carol (which in the essence of full disclosure I shot and directed so I'm hardly impartial!) that has some great footage of the acts and the definitive work on the hip steal.
Ray Pierce
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
The hip steal (credited by Marvyn to Alan Wakeling) is a combination of timing and weight shift, and Ray you did a fine job of putting that whole thing together!
Back to the subject at hand: Silk sequences Many years ago I had a act that was minimalistic in props and the overall pace and feel was jazzy and cool. It was only about 9 or 12 minutes so I could sustain audience interest in that dynamic for that length of time easily. But there was a demand for a longer set and I knew that I would have to change tempos and that is how the following routine evolved. The year was 1985 and I called it LVPN and used it as a closer. It t was to serve the function of high energy, fast pace, and was really less about mystery and more about filling the stage. Whether it is a silk sequence or not, each routine serves a vital theatrical purpose and is created to advance the overall effect. This is a practical approach to creativity and helps make sure that every routine hits a different 'button' with the audience. LVPN means Las Vegas Production Number and that was the feeling I was going to try and emulate..with silks! This meant that each silk would NOT be produced slowly or displayed for very long. Rather, as much as possible, they would be in constant movement (as would I) and it was tightly choreographed to the music. A note about the music. It was edited (with no small effort) by my good friend Ray Pierce on a reel to reel recorder in the old style: splicing block and tape! The 75 or 90 seconds of music had about a dozen edits created seamlessly and I would defy anyone to tell where the cuts were...thank you RAY! I know we haven't got to the silk part guys, but all of this is integral to the overall effect. When I first conceived of the effect, I was still thinking as a solo act so everything was done as a single load. I had no tables onstage to steal from and the costume was very fitted. My assistant / partner/ wife LIANE would play an increasing role in this effect , but not too much at this early stage. I used the THIS production to hold all the loads. I would enter the stage after a false ending from the previous routine. In the wings I would pick up the loaded THIS and a single 24" silk rolled and palmed in my right hand. Produce the silk in the right, and add it to the THIS collection of three other silks. I used primary colors and a light green (making up for silks) Each silk was tossed in the air in the traditional THIS style. Then stepping further downstage, I made my first production of what appeared to be a 36' multicolored pattern silk. I wanted patterns only and no recognizable images such as RICE's art picture silks. This was a deliberate choice, because thinking and recognizing take too much brain power and deliberation. I wanted flashes of color only! Now the 36" silk was displayed for just a second and then the silk was turned around revealing a second pattern. In reality, it was five 36 silks sewn together on a ribbon (like one of Bob's line'-o'-silks). Each had snaps that kept them aligned as one. It was revealed as a line of silks when my partner grabbed one corner and I took the other and we stepped very quickly in opposite directions...15 feet apart! Part of my thinking here is that each silk section of this quantity production had to show itself in a slightly different dynamic. The THIS silks went UP, the single(?) 36" was center in front of me and the chain of 5 was a big horizontal image. Liane would exit stage left with the 5, She wouldn't gather them up, instead she moves so quickly that the remained suspended in the air until out of sight. Again, I wasn't going to have them on display for very long! I should note that all 5 silks were different patterns and color arrangements. Next, I produced a streamer on a stick like the Chinese acrobats. this was in 1985 and magicians weren't doing this sort of thing (yet). Frankly, the dancing around went on a bit too long, but it was very visual and filled the music with lots of aggressive movement . This streamer would change over time in it's patterns, but it was always some version of a rainbow blend. . It was about 6 or 8" wide by 25 feet. At the end of this phase, it was gathered up and held in the same hand as the THIS load bag. The length was determined by how easily I could keep the silk airborne on a 12" stick. A longer stick would have be easier, but wouldn't fit my load chamber. The thing about a quantity silk production is...that it's not about how many or how much silk you can produce...it's how much you can produce ENTERTAININGLY. The next production was the least successful in my opinion, it was a production of a 5' square. I chose a 5' silk because I could (theoretically) display it between my hands with ease. It was a multicolored series of concentric squares with the predominant color being yellow> I don't think I did any thing special with this silk, but it served to conceal the laod bag as we built towards the finish. The last part was the production of two 6' silks on flagstaves. This was to sell the ending of the act and by spreading out my arms...it created quite a nice stage picture. I originally used RICE Dragon's but after I wore them out, I designed my own pattern silks. These I created by using squares that overlapped and cutting out the extraneous parts until I had a single thickness. I still use this type of silk today (although the routine is entirely different.) and although it's very strong, the folds are ironed in, which over time creates a weak silk. So, I have made about 5 sets of these 6' silks. Richard mentioned that he's like to know more about the resetting and other details. In this routine all the silks were folded ONCE and the folds were ironed in. This meant that the fabric would be folded EXACTLY the same way every show, but the fabric would wear out quicker. that was OK by me, as keeping reset time to a minimum was most important to me! They even traveled folded and loaded. Now here's some added info on this old routine. About 2 or 3 years later, (1987-88) I changed the trick from THIS. I was getting some flack from other magicians who thought that producing silks from silks was weak. They had a point, although I felt the routine was not about creating a great mystery, it was about entertainment at that part in my act. I had already done enough heavy weight things in my 12 minutes to prove my magical bona fides. Still, the trick could be improved and I figured out how! That will be in my LVPN part 2 to follow!
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
Ok guys, to make this easier to understand. I just uploaded it "LVPN 1985" onto youtube, but remember ...it's almost 25 years ago! And the music was edited in 1985 by Ray Pierce...thanks again Ray!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsA-1pCJLpc Regards- JNeal
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
JNeal,
Thanks for sharing the video. If I did that it would look like tubby the walrus does ballet. I remember seeing you do this at Abbott's probably in the late 1970's. You were doing a single. It was the encore of your act. You went off and came back with red, white and black silks if I remember correctly. The streamer load was in contrast to the monochromatic color of the initial silks. And the next thing I remember is the the two large flagstaffs filling the stage. I next saw it at Kansas City IBM and I noticed a few slight changes. But mind you it had been over 20 years. But it still impressed me as much. Ward Thomas had taught me about ironing the folds in to flagstaff silks. With the edge of the fabric reinforced that attached to the pole it it very easy to iron in the pleats. It makes folding the silks a snap and minimizes the wrinkles. The edge that is attached to the staff has to be reinforced. I actually encased the reinforcing ribbon inside the silk edge. It is folded, sewn and then dyed. There is not difference in appearance to the audience that way. I understand the choice of splashes of color instead of picture silks. Rice silks are absolutely gorgeous but I feel that sometimes they can be lost on stage. Mr. Rice was a genius in mixing his color palette for the silks. Of course, his art background helped enormously on this. I think his flash silks color combinations are some of the best in magic. But as I tell guys when I hand paint the silks, you have to think of the silks as a billboard. You are traveling in a car at 20 MPH. Small details are going to be lost. It is the bigger picture that is important. The details of the Rice silks would quickly get lost on stage in most acts. Ward Thomas used to produce a huge amount of Rice silks. It would start small and getting bigger and more of them until he had a string of four 6' silks. He had several sets of silks, dragons, butterflies, Flash silks, American Flags and Santa Claus (Abbott). I swear you could hear the adding machines of magicians as he did the act. But it was a little monotonious to laymen with the repeating of designs. Marvin's use of the Haunted Chimneys was great. I even caught the little something extra he add to the load tube. I have spoken to Ruth Rice on possibly making these again. Just have not the time to work on it any further and to talk more with Ruth. I also have a smaller set that was made by Mr. Rice that is very uncommon. The Duval silk is a great lesson in blocking, movement and sequencing of an act. Every movement and load was carefully planned and executed. I remember seeing Landis Smith do a version of this at one time. The blocking was different and loads where obtained without a table unit as Duval used. What added a lot to what Landis did was the inclusion of the Karl Germain butterfly to finish the act. It was impressive. I understand Fantasio also did a version of the Duval act. 20 years ago or so, I advised a contest in an act trying to do a version of the act. She was trying to make two loads and switch tubes. It just was not flowing. She was also using original P&L tubes. I managed to get her a much bigger load with only one load and one switch. The P&L tubes were 3" in diameter and about 10" tall. I went to a 4" tube, 12" tall. The first tube was a phantom tube. Then there was a bullet load for that tube. Then a duplicate tube (without the phantom) was rung in for the final production. It was much easier and increased the load. The size difference was not noticed on stage. JNeal, You blew me away with the cleanup move on the silks on the stage. I guess it all just clicked that night. Ray, good job on the music. With the technology now, does it make you marvel a bit at the way things were accomplished with such primitive means. But they still work today if we need to use them. Bravo. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
Thanks Richard!
you are right (as always) , the 6 foot silks must be reinforced across the top edge and your eye for detail is uncanny. The 'cleanup' move was out of expediency and I can't believe I had the guts to do that on nationwide TV! BTW- what preceeded this on the Griffin show, was my handling of the Egg on Fans (another trick I've done 4 or 5 versions of) and the snowstorm...but that's for another time! I'll post some stuff about other silk sequences a bit later, I'm off to some ships and not sure if I'l have decent internet. Again, thanks for the kind words! JNeal
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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bojanbarisic Elite user Croatia 462 Posts |
Thanks for uploading it Jonathan
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
We have a silk/dove act, done to music, that we will use to open our show sometimes.
From a 36" foulard, I steal a line of silks ala dove load. The foulard is draped while the line is gathered and a silk fountain to dove is stolen into the foulard to be produced next. A Slydini newspaper tear is then done and a 4" wide single colour silk streamer is produced. A dove is then produced from the streamer. Next, a Hong Kong dove production is put together, two more long silk streamers, 2 doves and a Rabbit silk come out of it. The rabbit silk is then transformed to a rabbit to end the routine. |
JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
The later version (still not my current version) is on the thread LVPN and has a you tube clip link at the bottom of the thread.
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1850 Posts |
I hope you guys keep talking. I am trying to soak all of this in.
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
One of the (few) things I think I got right (at least in terms of pacing) in these old clips, is the concept of the line of silks being introduced as a single element and then instantaneously expanded. Many times when produced from apparatus, the line can look just like what it is ...a laundry line, and the only element of surprise is when the line will come to an end.
In some situations that may be unavoidable, but thought should be given as to having some variety in the tempo in productions. For example, for a very long line of silks produced from something (say the Kuma tubes) one could produce the line of silks (using both ends of the line) simultaneously, leaving the center for the final moment. This allows the performer to get physically away from the apparatus as he and his assistant display them horizontally. I know that isn't too clear a description. Darkwing, if you have any questions or thoughts don't hesitate to ask, if we can make anything clearer, I'd be delighted to try.
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1850 Posts |
Jonathan,
You might be sorry you ask for my questions. I am taking notes and as soon I have some time to digest the post in this topic I will have several questions. A quick mention of one thing that stands out is the way you and Richard do a lot with a little. In both cases more is not better and is like you stated it must be entertaining. I have seen magicians try to produce every silk they own and just like card manipulators that produce 4 decks of cards it is just a mess. Magicians think this is great but the paying audience just gets bored with it very quickly. My first question is this; What is your thinking when it comes to making a silk sequence entertaining? Are you trying to see the routine from the audience view point? I like the idea of first producing the first 36" silk and then produce the line of silks, Brilliant! What is your thinking on color, combinations of colors, and proper sequences of size and color? Give me a few hours and I know I will have more questions. Remember, you ask for it. All kidding aside; Jonathan and Richard I have benefited greatly from this topic. One of the best I have ever seen on Magic Café. Thank you. I owe you and Richard a dinner. David Williams |
JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
Good questions all, Darkwing!
You are right, (for me in particular) it all about how much I can get out of how little. Minimalism is an important component in all my effects including those without silks. There are practical as well as artistic reasons: I travel with no case heavier than 50 pounds and my main show is in one case 12"x 15"x 24" (about a footlocker in size)..... and that is a 45-55 minute music stage show. But artistically, I believe in getting more out of little because it forces me to stretch myself and not rely on the props to 'carry' me. The famous Broadway director and choreographer Tommy Tune once said: "...show me less and involve me more" So it's my attempt to involve the audience by giving more of myself and bringing aspects to the show that they might ot normally associate witha magic act / show. In order to make sure a routine is entertaining to Laymen is paramount, you must consider their tastes and expectations. Generally speaking, audiences have less understanding and interest in the details and nuances of magic than we do. So to make sure it is entertaining, it is advisable to work in broad strokes. Fitzkee and Nelms write extensively on this. Silk production routines should have a build: a build perhaps of tempo, or intensity of color, or size of silks... of any factor that you can make increasingly powerful. I remember a J.G. Thompson silk routine from on of his books that started out with a spool of thread, a piece was unwound, and that piece was changed to a bright colored silk...and the routine was off and running! Brilliant! (By the way, the silk was stolen out of a hollow spool of thread) this is a wonderful idea for starting a silk routine as simply as possible. So, if silk production routines are based on the concept of making each production, brighter, bigger, or faster than the preceeding...what about other silk routines not about producing? One format that imposes order on a series of disparate silk tricks is to link them together. So that one trick flows into the next: Produce a silk, from the silk produce a pair of scissors, cut and restore the silk with the scissors, wind the silk into a small bundle, tap the silk with the scissors (like a magic wand), the silk changes color, steal a fountain of silks, produce the fountain and from the bundle ... and maybe produce a jumbo sized pair of scissors for the finale. This kind of linkage is called "liasion" and can work with almost any series of tricks with a little thought. Again, it must be looked at from the audience's point of view: If you really could do magic, what would happen next? And the sample plot as shown above is very easy on the eyes and mind, requiring no great thought or analysis. The ending is a surprise, but a logical surprise rather than a non sequitur. Each routine may be created by linkage, but I will not try to impose that structure on an entire act. There was a time when great performers would link their entire act to flow as one continuous thing, but I think for today's audience it is better to have some breaks in between numbers , like separate courses in a meal. For my personal taste, what I use to create a routine and make sure it is entertaining is music. I use the music's structure to give backbone to the routine and will time the punches and climaxes to the accents in the music, even if it means altering the trick to fit. Additionally, music adds emotional appeals that many tricks cannot supply otherwise. Color theory about what works well together can be easily learned by typing COLOR THEORY into a Google search and many websites will tell you in great detail about primary, complementary, and contrasting relationships of shades. I'm not trying to skirt the question, but there are genuine experts who have written books on this who can explain it better than I. Some acts like to choose a limited range of colors, perhaps two or three colors that work well together and use that as a sub- 'theme' in their act. So any time a silk is used it is one of those colors. this imposes a kind of unity that is mentally and visually pleasing. Most magicians like that red, black and white look, but it has been overdone and other options might be better. One thing is for certain, if you did an entire act with such a limited palette, the introduction of one odd color as a surprise could have tremendous misdirective power! Something to consider...
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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Mark Boody Illusionist Inner circle 1366 Posts |
My wife & I just performed last night for a fundraiser for our local theater. We open with a very simple silk act. We each do snap silks ( alternating between each production, she uses neon colors, I use standard colors ), dropping the silks into a top hat. My wife then takes a silk & hands it to me & I do the dream bag production (the color silk matches the color of the box). After all 3 boxes are produced, I do a double take looking into the bag & the produce 36 ft multi streamer which we stretch out across the stage. As my wife is gathering up the streamer,(I ditch the dream bag) I'm picking up the silks from the top hat along w/ silk fountain. My wife looks at the bundle of colorful streamer & takes a black scarf from around her neck & turns that into a multi streamer to match the other one in her hand. She throws me the multi scarf, I catch it & add it to my handful of silks & produce the fountain. That produces a 6 ft butterfly silk, which we each hold a corner, striking the applause pose. As the applause starts to die down, my wife then throws out a kabuki streamer for the final WOW ending.
Not very complicated, but very effective for us. It fills the stage with a lot of color. Mark
Only he who can see the invisible can do the impossible. Frank L. Gaines
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
Sounds like a winner.
I use the double takes on phantom tube production. It is amazing the reaction you can get from kids if you do this properly. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
Sounds like a very clever routine....
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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Mark Boody Illusionist Inner circle 1366 Posts |
Thanks for the positive feedback. We continue to improve what we do, trying different things, taking out things that don't work & adding in others.
Duane Laflin was very helpful with his input when we tried this out for him at the Magic Show Conference in Branson MO. I'm always thankful to get positive/negative comments from working pros, it only helps us to improve. Mark
Only he who can see the invisible can do the impossible. Frank L. Gaines
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