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cafeinst Elite user 489 Posts |
Has anybody ever tried to use the close-up "In & Out Boxes" effect as a stage illusion, with big boxes? I was thinking that this might be good to do. I would love to hear anyone's opinion about this.
Craig |
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DamonWizaed New user 60 Posts |
Craig -
I sort of remember Doug Henning doing it on TV. Don't know the date. Damon |
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gulamerian Special user 581 Posts |
Doug Henning did it with a production of a girl at the end.
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
And there was a thread on it here.
B
Visit My Facebook Fan Page At
www.Facebook.com/BlairMarshallMontrealMagician www.BlairMarshall.ca www.ShaZzamShow.com www.MontrealMagicien.com |
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
It was Dick Zimmerman who pitched Doug the idea and may have been responsible for that routine.
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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rtgreen Inner circle Portland, Oregon 1322 Posts |
I think it was the special with Ricky Schroder. Doug was telling how he transports illusions from place to place. A large packing crate was brought onstage and a colorful box was taken out. Doug then said, "but where do we store the crate? Inside the box of course." and the packing crate was placed inside the colorful box. The the girl appeared from the box. I remember thinking it was a cool idea .
Thanks, Richard |
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
A cool idea yes, but not great magic. Because of the size style of the boxes, there are plenty of possibilities in the layman's mind: special hinges, flexible elastic cloth panels, etc; all manner of solutions as to how one box could fit in another.
If one box were made of glass or some visibly and demonstrably unbendable material, the illusion would be strengthened. If the boxes could be examined, it would strengthen the effect. Also, by producing the girl, we have given some credence to the idea that these ARE tricky boxes. If the illusion needed a 'kicker' it would have been better with something related to the box proportions ...such as a square aquarium filled with water and fish, or perhaps 1000 or so 2" square and solid dice could come cascading out. While the idea of 'scaling' up a closeup or parlour effect sometimes works as a inspirational source for an illusion...it weakened the trick in this case. IMHO
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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Frank Simpson Special user SW Montana 883 Posts |
Personally, I disagree with the above assessment.
Doug's presentation of this effect was great, and it was a fooler! Simple in plot, and very entertaining. It was Ricky Schroeder helping Doug. I remember the dialog as being something like- Ricky: Doug, I notice you've got all these beautiful illusions, but I don't know where you keep them. Doug: Well we've got these very strong wooden packing cases that we use to move them from show to show. Ricky: Well how come I haven't seen any of them around backstage? Doug: That's because we keep the cases inside the illusions! Ricky: Wait a minute... how can you have a case for something inside the something it's supposed to be a case for? Doug: Well, we do that in case the case is taken, in which case we have to take our case to court in order to get our case back. Ricky: I'm sorry I asked! Doug:Well instead of me telling you, why don't I show you? Then he proceeded with the illusion, removing the "packing crate" from the rainbow-themed box and showing it empty. He then placed them side by side to demonstrate that they are identical in size. Next he opened the packing case and lowered the illusion into it (which had also been shown empty), and put on the lid. Ricky then wondered what the original illusion was for, and the lid popped open to reveal Marie Osmond. It was a really great illusion, and was a favorite of mine for several years! |
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magicbob116 Inner circle 1522 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-22 18:03, JNeal wrote: You could do this on a case by case basis. (Sorry, I couldn't resist)
B. Robert Pulver
The "I Hate Card Tricks!" Book of Card Tricks Vol. 1, 2, and 3 Kards for Kids Sticky Situations Sleightly Wacky http://www.magicnook.com/magicbob |
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briansmagic Special user USA 507 Posts |
Kevin Spencer does this in his show.
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aboycemagic Regular user 153 Posts |
Its in the osborne book, Quickies.
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briansmagic Special user USA 507 Posts |
I seem to remember it being pretty effective as a stage piece...
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-22 18:03, JNeal wrote: Boy... this is a tough one but I've got to side here as well. I think we sometimes confuse a clever routine with great magic. Yes, the routine (exactly the same as the small version) is a clever bit of whimsy. It's cute, fun and entertaining. I guess I just have different standards for what makes great magic. For all the reasons JNeal stated, the cleverness of the piece is reduced by the production. I remember when Tenyo came out with Parabox.. their take on the Driebeck die (or Gozinta boxes/in-n-outa boxes). They came up with a very clever loading for the sponge balls that was enhanced by the proximity of the spectator. By handling the boxes and displaying them up close, there was no heat on the box itself. It was accepted as a simple plastic box, so the sponge balls were a very clever production ... but STILL not great magic. We worked with it for months and the best it got was... "That's kinda' cool". As magicians we frequently reward cleverness and not effect as we already know the method. This routine is a prime example. Everyone thinks different things are "great". When I was 12, it was Pixie Sticks (the crack of the 70's). As I've gotten older, I guess my standards change and adapt to the other things I've experienced. All opinions help us judge and determine worth. For me, this was cute and a clever routine but I have to stop short of calling it "great".
Ray Pierce
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-22 22:12, Ray Pierce wrote: Then, allow me add my own to the pile... Not great magic perhaps, but I think that probably misses the point, especially regarding Doug Henning, who single-handedly prompted the sale of thousands of Pom-Pom sticks. The word "whimsical" comes to mind, when I think of this, and a number of other routines that Doug performed. His broad message of the appreciation of wonder and joy surely was as much a part of this (the Gozintas) as with most of the other things he performed.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
Well of course Michael you are correct, one cannot deny Doug's irrepressible appeal. However despite Doug's enthusiastic and joyful handling of this effect, I think even the most rabid of his fans would probably NOT include this in the pantheon of Doug's Best
And since his passing, we must judge the trick on it's own merits...unless one wants to slavishly adopt Doug's persona and performance as one's own...usually not a recipe for career success.
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
I don't believe Doug's stage version of the Gonzinta Boxes was meant to be a feature illusion like THINGS THAT GO BUMP IN THE NIGHT.
Still, I found it to be quite clever. |
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Oliver Ross Inner circle Europe 1724 Posts |
Caféinst,
The german magician Simon Pierro used the Gozinta boxes in a big version for a television gig. The plot was to have two guys helping for a move from house to house take the box out of a room. They couldn't, because the box was larger than the door opening. So Simon inversed the boxes, but it didn't work either. It was presented more like a fun act, than as an illusion. I think there's a video of this gig on youtube. Oliver. |
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cafeinst Elite user 489 Posts |
I just got the close-up version of this effect and performed it for my coworkers. Most of them figured it out. Some couldn't figure it out though.
I work with actuaries, who are mathematically inclined. Do you think this is the reason why most of them figured it out? Does it usually fool people? Craig |
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JVHarrison Regular user 105 Posts |
Doug performed the giant Gozinta boxes on his sixth television special. In that routine he was assisted by Ricky Schroder and produced Marie Osmond as the kicker. It was Dick Zimmerman who presented the idea to Doug and worked out the staging. Doug ended up touring with the illusion and, to enhance the effect, he produced not one, but two, women from the box--each of whom emerged holding a flapping duck. My opinion is that the inside/outside aspect of the illusion falls into the "mildly amusing and somehat puzzling" category, but is hardly great stage magic. The production of the women is the kicker that saves the illusion from mere mediocrity. It does have a "packs flat, plays big" appeal, but that doesn't make it any more entertaining.
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-23 01:09, JNeal wrote: JNeal, Agreed, as long as we are speaking of the "magic" element. It is in fact, more of a puzzle than a magical happening. The story woven around it would have to carry the trick, and even with the kicker ending, perhaps lacked something rudimentary. It may be that too much focus was placed upon the boxes... a common mistake made by many illusionists. Perhaps the kicker was an attempt to divert attention from where it may have been poorly placed initially. (The later augmented kicker may have been an attempt to slap another coat of paint on a dull trick.) In spite of that, Doug's endearing, and enduring attribute with his magic, was that he tried many times and many ways to show the magic in simple anomalies. This is more to the point that I mentioned earlier. In some of his routines, it was more about THAT message than the amazement of the magic itself, regardless of whether this attempt failed to hit the bull's eye, or not. Pehaps I am biased on the potential of this trick. Not because I worship Doug Henning, or the trick itself, but because I have my own presentation in which the Gozintas are an incidental moment of magic, but at the same time critical to the more magical (and hopefully, entertaining) ending of the routine. I don't believe I've solved everyone's dilemma with this trick, but I think I've solved mine. Quote:
And since his passing, we must judge the trick on it's own merits...unless one wants to slavishly adopt Doug's persona and performance as one's own...usually not a recipe for career success. This was proven a number of times during the late 70's and early 80's.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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