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Slim King
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Banachek stated .....


"Psychic Samurai (not living in Singapore , re Steve Shaw. He and Banachek are the same, but we don't call Kreskin by his real name, we don't use Copperfield's real name and we don't call Houdini... Eric Weiss and we don't call.....well you get the idea. It is called respect and I do respect you.
Sorry, feeling a little ornery."
----------------------------------
Steve Shaw is the name you were using AT THE TIME correct? In all respect, and for those who like to actually research the facts, I used the name you were using then during the Hoax. Sorry to offend.

I have read somewhere that randi had contacted the University himself, before the Hoax, and asked to be included in the research. Is that true?

Some have said that his rejection from the project was his true motivation for the Hoax. I realize that you were just a teen at the time but did you notice or were you aware of the previous contact?

The Professor Slim King / Dave Koenig
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
pearljamjeff
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Some of this criticism seems extremely harsh and out of line. I agree that you can't study something forever without results, but I, personally, do not feel that PSI has been given due diligence in the scientific community. There is not another phenomenon in the world with such a high level of anecdotal and observational "evidence" and so little (real) scientific study. It's disproportionate in my eyes. I don't blame project alpha for this, but it was a small, contributing factor.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
magicnewswire
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Sounds like it should indeed prove to be an interesting movie.. when and if it gets made. I've never heard that this was Randi's motivation, but there are numerous sources indicating that Randi did in fact contact them prior to the tests offering guidance as to the criteria for the tests. In fact, my understanding for Randi's motivation in these areas is the “strong pro-psychic bias” that mosts scientists researching this area seem to exhibit. I've also seen it said that he contacted them throughout the process advising them that the subjects were fake, but no effort was made to check out their backgrounds. In addition, other sources state that Randi "trained" Banachek & Edwards for the tests. Obviously, Banachek stated that there was no training. Listen to the interview again. It makes you take a fresh look at the story of Project Alpha. It did me. It also made me better realize why people seeing a mentalist perform buy into the act more quickly than they do to an act of traditional magic. Thet "Want" to believe.
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Banachek
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Hey Professor Slim,

Randi was included from the very moment I was included to be tested so he was there from the start and even prior to my acceptance at the Lab. He offered his services from day one and continued to do so all along even sending along the exact methods we were using. The hoax did not happen as revenge because Randi was rejected, to suggest so is a leap in assumption. The idea of introducing a magician into a lab that did not accept magicians as the experts on detecting trickery was our focus long before McDonnell giving his money to the University, this type of refusal showed a lapse in judgment, in our opinion.

I am not sure if Randi contacted them in advance but would not be a surprise as it certainly would have made sense and allowed them to prevent anyone, ourselves or other would be psychics using tricks to enter the lab. If they refused his or any other magicians help they opened themselves up to such scrutiny. Project Alpha was not revenge but a logical progression of failing to accept expert help in any form from magicians when it came to detecting this type of trickery.

Remember, Randi and I had talked about this experiment years prior to Washington U receiving this funding. We had two hypothesis..

Hypothesis one: Parapsychologists have been lamenting for decades that they are unable to conduct proper research due to the lack of adequate funding, but I felt strongly that the problem lay in their strong pro-psychic bias. The first hypothesis, therefore, was that no amount of financial support would remove that impediment to improvement in the quality of their work.

Hypothosis two: parapsychologists would resist the accepting expert conjuring assistance in designing proper control procedures and, as a result, would fail to detect various kinds of simple magic tricks.

We were accord with many others in the field – such as Stanley Krippner, who was then current president of the Parapsychological Association – who insisted that qualified, experienced conjurors were essential for design, implementation, and evaluation of experiments in parapsychology, especially where deception – involuntary or deliberate – by subjects or experimenters, might be possible.

And we were in accordance with other parapsychologists like U.K. Trevor Finch had even directly suggested that skeptics try to introduce a conjuror into a lab disguised as a psychic.

All of this is on my website http://www.banachek.com

By the way, http://www.banachekproducts.com now has a forum area to discuss my products and other ideas associated for those interested
In thoughts and Friendship
Banachek
Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row
Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act
PEA Creativity Award Recipient
http://www.banachek.com
Slim King
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In all respect ... I am not Leaping to An Assumption. I am asking a Question.

You are suggesting that despited being rejected by the University, it played no role in randi's motives for the Hoax.

I was not there, but putting myself in a similar position, I don't see how I could set aside the rejection and proceed with purely untainted motives.

But I did like your interview as always !!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Banachek
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Mota,
First, obviously you have never talked to scientists who believe in PSI who are doing research to document their own belief system.

It is not true that any smuck can trash a research study, that is saying that you yourself think so little of the scientific community. I hold true research in very high regard. Educating the researchers does not work. They need to bring in a specialist. By saying we can educate and teach a researcher all he needs to know in a short period of time really cheapens our art, it is part of the reason magic is seen so low on the art totem pole. Most people think of magic as easy to do and no skill required and no experience required.

I respect our ART and see it as something grander, something to be respected and something that takes years of study and dedication to get just right, as with any of the other arts. Good magic is not easy, it is *** hard work.

There is so much more to learn than the routines and tricks, like the subtleties, the psychology and the timing of art. This is not something you can teach in a simple "demonstration."

I guess I am just as you say, "Hapless, inept and Pathetic," rather than patient when it comes to psychic phenomena Smile . If you do your research you will find out it was not "Taxpayer money." as you stated. Also if you do your research you will find that many of the Parapsychologists would not watch any demonstration or even listen to magicians. Randi's eleven caveats he sent to them in advance would have stifled our work from the beginning as it did for the BBC researcher who tested us, but rather they would just laugh at them, because they came from a magician (not respecting magic as an art), they would rather show them to us and throw them in the trash.

I find your post very personal and attacking and self promoting rather than constructive so I won't reply to them any more after this post.

Slim,

I was not saying you leapt to assumptions but you wrote " I have read somewhere that Randi had contacted the University himself, before the hoax, and asked to be included in the research. Is that true?" As I stated, it could be.

But then you then went on to say "Some have said that his rejection from the project was his true motivation for the Hoax." Those elusive "some" are the ones who leapt to that ASSumption and I never said you did, I was talking about those who wrote what you read. I appreciate you asking the question.
In thoughts and Friendship
Banachek
Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row
Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act
PEA Creativity Award Recipient
http://www.banachek.com
Drewmcadam
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Hey, Banachek. Just to inject some levity... I'll be seeing you next year (Yay, The Sark Pirates.) Really looking forward to it.

Drew
Banachek
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Yep, me too, breath of fresh sunshine, and we may be performing in smugglers caves, for an entire sovereignty. That's different.
In thoughts and Friendship
Banachek
Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row
Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act
PEA Creativity Award Recipient
http://www.banachek.com
mota
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I have nothing to promote. Skeptics aren't my market. You however do sell things to magician's and do promote...if self-promotion is a sin start with yourself.

You also actively promote your belief system, as you did when you trashed someone's research...it wasn't taxpayer money so it was OK? They didn't do it the way you wanted so you wrecked it? Some psi-researchers wouldn't listen to you so you wrecked things? You had no other options than one that was coincidentally self-promoting?

It is personal to the extent that high school drop-outs, teenagers, and others with no qualifications other than arrogance and smugness clamor for scientific proof.

That is an extraordinary claim.

On one post they are simple tricks, on another they take a lot of education. You need a bit of consistency here.

Personal attacks and ridicule are common practices among skeptics but when you think it is turned on you it isn't fine so you won't reply? Where is your condemnation of this practice when skeptics use it?

You won't reply...ouch...I'll let you know when I care. This is also common practice among some skeptics...when their lack of qualifications and objectivity are pointed out they stop talking.

You want evidence of your lack of qualifications? Give your two "hypothesis" to some poor kid for his high school science class, then apologize for the grade he gets. You technically understand the word hypothesis but that's about it. You clearly don't know how to construct one.

You had no idea what you were doing back then. This wasn't entirely your fault. You had a middle-aged man coaching a couple young teenagers. That isn't the kid's fault. There isn't a cure for young...you just don't have the experience yet. What seems a good idea at the time can, twenty odd years later, seem like bad thinking.

If you still believe project alpha was a valid approach you haven't learned a thing. If you would approach it differently, not as destructively as before, you may have learned something.

HOWEVER...you make a very good point that must be recognized. You mention psi-researchers who already believe in psi.

A researcher who already believes in the results they seek is seriously, seriously flawed. To use the word "scientist" to describe them is a stretch.

You have to be willing, when the results don't match what you expected, to do something...change, redesign, or see it as fatally flawed, trash it and start over.

Time catches these people with others not being able to replicate their experiments. I know one molecular biologist who "knew" what he wanted in his results and kept sending his lab techs to repeat experiments until they got the right result (which usually didn't happen). He lost his grants and is now in an administrative position while he tries to find work. Gonna' be tough for him.

I read a paper last week where the scientist was commenting on a concept of molecular biology, one with as much acceptance as gravity. He remarked, "...the molecules operating in the other direction have not yet been observed".

That's how a scientist talks.
Joshua Quinn
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Quote:
On 2009-09-26 17:18, Banachek wrote:
There is so much more to learn than the routines and tricks, like the subtleties, the psychology...


You should write a book on that.
Every problem contains the seeds of its own solution. Unfortunately every problem also contains the seeds of an infinite number of non-solutions, so that first part really isn't super helpful.
Slim King
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Quote:
On 2009-09-26 17:18, Banachek wrote:
Mota,
First, obviously you have never talked to scientists who believe in PSI who are doing research to document their own belief system.

It is not true that any smuck can trash a research study, that is saying that you yourself think so little of the scientific community. I hold true research in very high regard. Educating the researchers does not work. They need to bring in a specialist. By saying we can educate and teach a researcher all he needs to know in a short period of time really cheapens our art, it is part of the reason magic is seen so low on the art totem pole. Most people think of magic as easy to do and no skill required and no experience required.

I respect our ART and see it as something grander, something to be respected and something that takes years of study and dedication to get just right, as with any of the other arts. Good magic is not easy, it is *** hard work.

There is so much more to learn than the routines and tricks, like the subtleties, the psychology and the timing of art. This is not something you can teach in a simple "demonstration."

I guess I am just as you say, "Hapless, inept and Pathetic," rather than patient when it comes to psychic phenomena Smile . If you do your research you will find out it was not "Taxpayer money." as you stated. Also if you do your research you will find that many of the Parapsychologists would not watch any demonstration or even listen to magicians. Randi's eleven caveats he sent to them in advance would have stifled our work from the beginning as it did for the BBC researcher who tested us, but rather they would just laugh at them, because they came from a magician (not respecting magic as an art), they would rather show them to us and throw them in the trash.

I find your post very personal and attacking and self promoting rather than constructive so I won't reply to them any more after this post.

Slim,

I was not saying you leapt to assumptions but you wrote " I have read somewhere that Randi had contacted the University himself, before the hoax, and asked to be included in the research. Is that true?" As I stated, it could be.

But then you then went on to say "Some have said that his rejection from the project was his true motivation for the Hoax." Those elusive "some" are the ones who leapt to that ASSumption and I never said you did, I was talking about those who wrote what you read. I appreciate you asking the question.


Gee ..... they gave me 2 months off for using ASSumption Smile (or something similar)

Hope they don't do that to you Smile

I agree with Mota by the way. At 17 I'm not sure that randi didn't influence you and your decisions.

When in doubt follow the money. In retrospect it hasn't hurt your finances being able to be named as "The Man Who Fooled The Scientists" has it Smile

Just sayin' ......

I honestly enjoy much of your thinking ... really .... and you appear a decent guy ... But I think the Hoax was a mistake.

I liked the interview.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
IAIN
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Aw for cryin' out loud...give it a rest will you?!
I've asked to be banned
magicnewswire
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I love arguments where no one is satisfied until they all see it the same way. I'll say it.. I disagree, but I can agree to disagree and we can all part friends.
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mota
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You make a very good point...

You have a nice site that is clearly a labor of love...in addition to the fascinating Banachek interview are there any other interesting interviews or projects down the pipe you haven't mentioned yet?
Slim King
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I think there are hundreds (Over 100) on itunes, right?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
magicnewswire
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Thanks Mota,

There are indeed now 151 interviews posted. In fact, there's one with James Randi (#110) as well. You can see the complete list in the left column of the website. Click on any of the names there and you can listen to that chat on the website, or as Psychic Samurai stated, you can search for MagicNewswire on iTunes (iTunes Link) and subscribe there to get them as they come out. (Don't let the term "subscribe" fool you. They are all free.)

We've had almost everyone involved in the Jinx project on the show. I'll be posting a montage with several people that we have interviewed previously that were involved tomorrow including Burger, Maven, Mac King, Jonathan Levit and Mike Caveney.

Over the next two weeks, you'll be hearing from Mike Weber, David Ben and Stephen Minch with many more in the pipe.

I just completed an interview with Marvin Roy aka Mr. Electric that will be posted very soon as well.

As you'll see from the list in the left column of the site, previous guests have included Tony Curtis, Neil Patrick Harris, Barrie Richardson, Lance Burton, Harry Anderson, Jon Racherbaumer, John Calvert, David Blaine, Jim Steinmeyer, Johnny Thompson, Mark Wilson, Harry Lorayne, Keith Barry, Todd Robbins and many many many more.

Glad that you like what you see and I hope to get more feedback as you listen to more!

PS - Oh.. and I anticipate several reports from PCAM by two of my "Reporters at Large" as soon as they hit shore! (Similar to the reports that we had from Magic Live, FISM and TAOM)
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Gerry Hennessey
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Excellent interview with Banachek Dodd.

Many thanks for your great work.

How about some roving reporters for the upcoming Mindvention?

Best

Gerry
"Every discipline effects every other discipline. You can't straighten out the corporation if your closet is a mess" Jim Rohn

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magicnewswire
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Quote:
On 2009-09-26 23:31, Gerry Hennessey wrote:
Excellent interview with Banachek Dodd.
Many thanks for your great work.
How about some roving reporters for the upcoming Mindvention?


Already working on that. Are you volunteering? ;-) If so.. email me at MagicNewswire@gmail.com. Anyone else interested, please do the same! I'd love to add some new names to our cast!
Dodd Vickers

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Slim King
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Unfortunately I could only go back 100 episodes on itunes. I'm not sure how to view the rest. Pilot error I imagine. Glad to see Drew Thomas on there Smile
I did see a guy with several dozen video's "sharing" the explanations on video ... Made me feel bad.
Most of the other podcasts don't seem to be current or quite discombobulated Smile
All the more credit to you !!!!!!
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magicnewswire
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Quote:
On 2009-09-27 00:03, Psychic Samurai wrote:
Unfortunately I could only go back 100 episodes on itunes. I'm not sure how to view the rest. Pilot error I imagine. Glad to see Drew Thomas on there Smile
I did see a guy with several dozen video's "sharing" the explanations on video ... Made me feel bad.
Most of the other podcasts don't seem to be current or quite discombobulated Smile
All the more credit to you !!!!!!


Yeah.. Feedburner and Google source those feeds and they only go back 100 entries.

All the rest are available for Download or to be listened to online at MagicNewswire.com.

Anyone having trouble, please feel free to email me at MagicNewswire@gmail.com and I'll be happy to help.

Basically, click on the performers name that you see in the left column to listen online. If you want to download the show, look below the player and you'll see a "Download the MP3" link. Click on that and take it with you!

By other podcasts, I assume that you mean those produced by people other than me? ;-)
Dodd Vickers

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