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Dr. Hoodwink New user Eastern NC 42 Posts |
Hey, folks.
I'm building a square circle and would like to know if there's a recommended method of joining the panels that make up the square. I've built one SC before, but I used a wooden box that was already put together. The panels are really thick and heavy and it's more than I want to haul around from a weight standpoint. What I'm working on now is a SC made from thin plywood purchased from Michael's craft store. It'll be roughly 9x9x12 or so and gussied up with a steampunky motif. I know that just gluing them together isn't going to work. I can pin them together, but the plywood is awfully darn thin for that (I do have a pin vise left from converting wargame figures). I've also considered using a square dowel at each inside corner to give the glue something to adhere to. There is an option to have bent brass strips (in keeping with the steampunk motif) running up the edges on all four sides, but I'd rather just put brass corners on and let the dark stained woodwork dominate. I'd be grateful for any suggestions y'all might have. If I can learn how to best join thin plywood, it'd open up a lot of propbuilding projects I've got in mind. Regards, Rob |
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Craig Dickens Veteran user 379 Posts |
How thin is the plywood? I had a Square circle from Magic Inc years ago. It was built from 1/4 plywood ( the good stuff-baltic birch) and the joint was rabbeted.
Adding thin quarter round inside would be strong.
e-mail at:magicaldickens@aol.com
website: www.dickensmagic.com |
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tabman Inner circle USA 5946 Posts |
Think about it. The plywood is made up of even thinner sheets all glued together. Use some strong wood glue and clamp them up for a day or so. There should be no problem since theres no stress on the joints or you can go for a more beefy solution like your idea of the bracing square or Craig's quarter round.
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...
http://Sefalaljia.com |
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Dr. Hoodwink New user Eastern NC 42 Posts |
Hey, guys.
Thanks for the feedback! The plywood is 1/4". I do like the idea of the quarter-round bracing instead of the square stuff. If I had the tools, I'd rabbet the edges. I can do that with foamcore for my wargames building projects, but an Xacto knife just won't cut it in this case. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid about the thing falling apart on stage. After seeing Jeff McBride manipulate the components on his stage magic videos, I thought the thing had to be built tough. I'll start by just gluing and clamping and see how it holds up to a little minor jugglery. I can always add bracing later. Again, my most humble thanks. Regards, Rob |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Rabetted joints are how I make most all the boxes I do, but not being able to do that, at least you have the good fortune to be using very good Baltic Birch (this is much better than the 1/4" Birch ply sold at Lowes, Home Depot, etc.)
Use a good quality wood glue. Titebond is very strong and I highly recommend it. But, for extra strength that will not show on the outside, also pin the pieces together with small finishing brads. You can countersink the heads and fill before finishing. If you have access to some very small wood screws (#2 x 3/8"), they can serve an even better purpose. Just be sure to drill a very shallow pilot hole the diameter of the screw head so the heads will countersink, and you can fill them the same way. Sand and paint, and the nail/screw heads will never show, and you'll have extra reinforcement from side to side force. It will be much harder to break the glue joints with these small bits of hardware embedded.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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tabman Inner circle USA 5946 Posts |
Michael suggested small brads, and they are a good idea, however a pilot hole is also suggested for them. Every once in a while you get a renegade that just doesn't cooperate and desides to take a turn for the worse when you're working with the thin plywoods. Also, glue them up and clamp everything before driving the brads.
Goodest luck. How about a picture when you get done!!!???
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...
http://Sefalaljia.com |
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Dr. Hoodwink New user Eastern NC 42 Posts |
Hmmmm...pilot holes. Brads. And here I am with a pin vise.
Since this is a steampunk-themed project, I wonder if using brass brads, and leaving them visible, would actually add to the prop's victorian good looks? I'd love to post a picture, but I'll have to figger out how to use my new laptop's inbuilt camera. This is my first new computer since my AppleIIc, so I've got a little catching up to do technologically speaking. In regards to the plywood, I wish I could find larger sheets locally. I used to make some pretty decent boomerangs "back in the day" when I worked at a kite shop. One of my coworkers made and sold boomerangs and he had a source (when I left the store I didn't get the source from him). There's a lot of projects, magical and otherwise, I'd get serious about if I didn't have to spend my ducats on shipping sheets of plywood from outta state. Thanks, fellas. Rob |
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gimpy2 Special user 960 Posts |
Don't forget to clamp the box in square before the glue sets up.Even some tape on angle across the ends will hold it there until the glue dries.
Gimpy
Gimpy
www.gimpysmagic.com |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
The largest sizes for Baltic Birch at Michael's is 12" x 24", in thicknesses of 1/8"(3mm} 1/4", 3/8". and 1/2".
If you have a Woodcraft near you, they often carry sheets of Baltic and Finnish Birch up to 30" or so. I found a place in Illinois that carries 60" sq sheets, but I can only get there when I go up to visit my family. I usually try to load up for the trip home.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Leland Stone Inner circle 1204 Posts |
Hey, Rob:
Good advice from those who have already posted, to which I can only add the following: 1) Thin plywood joined with brads is surprisingly strong, as my own workshop experiments have shown; 2) For a steampunk look, maybe consider adding "outside corner moulding" on the exteriour of your box. You would add both structural strength and the over-built appearance typical of much Victorian-era engineering--easily enhanced with embedded screw- or rivet-heads, etc. This is it: http://www.contractortalk.com/attachment......e-up.jpg This moulding is available at the Big Orange Store Good luck, Leland |
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billappleton Inner circle Los Gatos, California 1154 Posts |
I have been using glue and brads from a nail gun for plywood. it's not always the prettiest solution, but it allows for very rapid construction. quarter inch is the minimum thickness for this however.
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Lester Regular user Scotland. U.K 193 Posts |
Hi Dr. Hoodwink,
Have you possibly considered duct tape as a possible hinging/joining material. It would, I guess, enable you to make a SC tube as large as possible but, at the same time, with a little judicious hinging ensure that the SC would pack flat. You could, indeed, make the Square Circle a Square Square thus affording a massive lo-- cham---! Can I recommend Jim Gerrish's article on making a Square Circle and Kuma Tubes combined. The plans are available from the Prof's website at http://www.magicnook.com. Hope this helps. Best Wishes, Lester |
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts |
It does occur to me that people rarely see dovetail joints anymore these days. Sure, they're tricky to cut (unless you've got the right jig), but nothing beats them for strength and durability. Those Ikea dressers fall apart after five years or two moves. But in my son's nursery there's a dresser that was put together with dovetail joints. That dresser's older than I am.
-Erik
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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DWRackley Inner circle Chattanooga, TN 1909 Posts |
I had one years ago ("store-bought") that used piano hinges on the inside, painted the same flat black as the rest of the inside. Only three corners were hinged, and the fourth corner was left unattached, meaning that it would open out flat to show "nothing here". A bonus was that it folded nicely for transport.
It seems (at least in my mind's eye) that bolt heads coming through to the outside would look very "steam punk-ish" indeed.
...what if I could read your mind?
Chattanooga's Premier Mentalist Donatelli and Company at ChattanoogaPerformers.com also on FaceBook |
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Dr. Hoodwink New user Eastern NC 42 Posts |
Hey, guys.
I'll be getting the panels for the main square cut over the next couple of days. Tools are all at hand, the panels marked out, etc. There have been so many good ideas here that I'm "spoiled for choice," as we say 'round here. Mr. Baker: I'll have to look up Woodcraft and see if there's one in Raleigh. I live in Greenville, NC...about the nowhere-ist kind of place if you want anything involving woodworking tools or materials except what you find at a poorly-equipped Lowe's (I've discovered that not every Lowe's or Home Depot is created equal). Mr. Stone: Y'know, I think I saw some of that the other day at Lowe's. It may be worth a trip back. A while back, I found some brass corners there and picked up a couple of packs. Combine the two? I like the "overbuilt" idea. Lester: Ahhh, Duct Tape. The Holy Ribbon of Saint Tenacious. The Force (it has a light side and a dark side and it binds the universe together). I actually used duct tape to build my prototype, which is indeed a Square Square. By accident I squashed one of the squares and, to my pleasant surprise, found that it folded down nicely into a flat piece. The current project is intended to be a more "solid" piece, but if I actually get this thing onstage and it works to my audience's satisfaction, I've got ideas for making a fully compact model. For the collapsible model, I'm trying to figure out a way to ring in the gaff while bringing out the flattened panels (inspiration for this comes from a "haunted house" production item from the Mark Wilson Complete Course). Oh, I've been eyeing a bunch of stuff from MagicNook. I'll have to add this to the list. EsnRedshirt: My first thought was to use dovetails, but I just don't have the skill. You'd think that someone who grew up watching Roy Underhill's Woodright Shop on PBS would'a picked up a few tricks. Once I get a more complete tool set, I'm gonna give it a try on some scrap and see how it goes. DW: Yeh, bolt heads, brass rivets, other assorted bits of metal stuck to (or holding together) this thing would definitely add to the steamy ambience. About the only thing I've gotta get worked out for now is what shape to make the front opening. I've got an old dresser with an interesting inlaid panel that has caught my eye. If y'all keep up the suggestions, I'm gonna be up to my clavicles in SC's. Not a bad place to be, mind. Thanks again! Regards, Rob |
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lin Special user California 877 Posts |
Quote:
About the only thing I've gotta get worked out for now is what shape to make the front opening. I've got an old dresser with an interesting inlaid panel that has caught my eye. You might also take inspiration from the decorative speaker grills of old tube radios. Here's a page with a couple of examples: http://www.philcorepairbench.com/cathedralid.htm A search would turn up lots more examples... not quite steampunk, but not far removed. cheers, Lin |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-30 11:41, lin wrote: VERY cool idea!! I actually got the initial inspiration for an Art Deco Square Circle grill that I made after I saw an aluminum screen door grill that looked like a crane standing among reeds.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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lin Special user California 877 Posts |
Thank you
I have some 1920's era "Home Handyman" books with a few deco fretsaw patterns for speaker grills, bookends, etc., and one of these days... ...too many ideas, too little time! Mr. Baker, could you post a photo of your Square Circle? I'd enjoy seeing it very much. cheers, Lin |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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ClintonMagus Inner circle Southwestern Southeast 3997 Posts |
If you want "super strength", consider gluing it together first, then adding thin aluminum angle to the inside corners, glued to the box with polyurethane glue.
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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