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Stellan Special user Sweden 580 Posts |
Who was the first known female magician? Does anybody know?
"There is no reality, only perception."
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mtpascoe Inner circle 1932 Posts |
There was the lady that gave birth to rabbits, Mary Toft, but I'm not sure if she was the first female magician though or if you can even consider her a magician at all. I'm sure Bill can think of one.
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MagiClyde Special user Columbus, Ohio 871 Posts |
I was going to say Morgan Le Fay , but the earliest one I know of for sure in the real world is Adelaid Herrmann.
Magic! The quicker picker-upper!
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mtpascoe Inner circle 1932 Posts |
Yeah, Morgan Le Fay. But you are correct, I don't think there is anyone before Madame Herrmann. I'll have to check when I get to my library.
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Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
Anna Eva Fay might also be considered "one of the first." She was certainly a contemporary of Adelaide Herrmann.
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
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BostonBlackie Regular user Chicago, IL 111 Posts |
There was a Madame Bosco performing in the late 1850s.
(No relation to THE Bosco, although she stole his performing credits.) http://chicagomagic.blogspot.com/2006/07......sco.html There was also a female magician by the name of Angie Schott in the 1870s. I assume there are others yet undiscovered.
It wasn't the brightest thing I've ever done in my life. Sadly though, it was far from the dumbest.
-- Zachary Nixon Johnson |
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mtpascoe Inner circle 1932 Posts |
There was a stage magician by the name of Signora Josephine Giradelli, the "Fire-Proof Female from Germany". She was actually Italian. Her performances incorporated the imbibing of boiling oil, walking barefoot on a red-hot iron, an various tortures by fire.
There also was a Haidee Heller that worked with Robert Heller. I don't know how much magic she actually did because there is not much written about her. She did the Second Sight with him. But, she was not the first woman to do a psuedo mind reading act. The Fox sisters where the first, but hardly can be considered magicians. They did perform on stage, but they were considered the real thing. Spellbinder is correct, Ana Eva Fay did perform before Madame Herrmann. Fay used magic techniques and probably was more of a magician than the Fox sisters. Ching Ling Foo's daughter, Chee Toy, was an accomplished magician, but that was after Madame Herrmann. There might have been a score of Oriental female magicians that was not known to the western world, but I haven't seen it recorded. Like BostonBlackie said, "I assume there are others yet undiscovered." |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
The Fox sisters were not actually magicians, in the normal sense of the word. They had one trick. They could pop their toes.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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mtpascoe Inner circle 1932 Posts |
That's true that's why I wouldn't call them magicians either. Anna Eva Fay used magicians methods in her act. David Abbott describes her act in his book, "Behind the Scenes With the Mediums". She was very clever.
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Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
Her name was Eve, I hear she made paradise vanish.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Don't rib us now.
Posted: Oct 16, 2009 3:06am I think in this discussion of female magicians, that the same standards of comparison should apply to whom we classify as magicians as would apply for male magicians. Firewalkers aren't generally thought of as magicians, per se. Also, it is important to separate the fictional magicians from the real ones. There is no evidence at all to support the existence of a Morgan LeFay.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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mtpascoe Inner circle 1932 Posts |
All so true Bill. I hesitate to include Fay even though she did you use magic techniques she was still not a "magician".
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Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-10-16 19:49, mtpascoe wrote: If you are refering to Anna Eva Fay, the Magic Circle and Harry Houdini would not agree with your assessment. The Magic Circle made her an honorary member, designating her as an Honorary Lady Associate, since at that time women were not eligible to be a members.
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
There is an old conundrum that will illustrate my position on this. If you have seven horses and six cows, and you call all the cows horses, how many horses do you have?
Answer: seven. Calling a cow a horse doesn't make it a horse.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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mtpascoe Inner circle 1932 Posts |
Good point.
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Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
Snappy comeback for anyone who quotes that conundrum: "And you call yourself a magician!"
(drum beat, cymbal crash!) Sorry. Couldn't resist.
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
No, I call myself retired. But I'm busier than I ever was!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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julieannjohnson Veteran user 305 Posts |
Alexander considered Anna Eva Fay a magician and gave details on her act in "Life and Mysteries of the Celebrated Dr. Q."
There was also Leona Lamar, a telepathist and stage mentalist, a.k.a. The Girl with 1,000 Eyes. Also we should not forget the earlier Millie Lammar / Lamar / La Mar (she apparently spelled it Lammar), the "blind albino seeress from Ceylon," who did a mind-reading and Q&A act and probably a code act as well. I have a great pitch book of hers, undated, but definitely 19th century. See her photo here: http://www.surecureantiques.com/items/58......ore.html -- and many more photos of her here, in a page on sideshow albinos: http://www.sideshowworld.com/BL-History-Albinos.html |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Something to bear in mind is that it isn't what other magicians think about a performer that counts. It's the way they classify themselves and the way the audiences view them.
Most of us consider Uri Geller to be a magician/mentalist. But the public views him as a psychic.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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julieannjohnson Veteran user 305 Posts |
Bill, that makes sense, but we also need to take into account, when looking back to the 19th century, the terminology of that time.
For instance, Millie La Mar souvenir photos are generally printed with the words "Miss Millie La Mar Mind Reader." See: http://www.sideshowworld.com/AB-2-G.jpg She appeared on stage and at sideshow venues (because she was not only a mentalist but also an albino). Did the public think of her "Mind Reader" presentation as an "act" of "entertainment" or did they view her as a "psychic"? We don't know, actually, not for sure -- but we do know that when they sought her out, it was not in a Spiritualist church but on a midway or in a theater. --- BostonBlackie, thank you, belatedly, for the link to a great article on Madame Bosco, the Magicienne. That was fascinating, albeit ultimately a little frustrating due to lack of detail and follow-up. |
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