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kenwebster
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"Any Hypnotist will tell you that what he did was not a trick, it was purely fake. It was acting. I just don't consider that good magic."

WELL SAID ADAM
dusty
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Now I will jump in with a few contentious comments.
There were plenty of comments on last week's show stating that Derren should have a got a least one number wrong. He does that this week and gets hammered for it ???

On the loser, cheap suit etc. comments. Unless the individual concerned is offended then we have no right to be. The Amazing Jonathon abuses audience members throughout the show and the audience love it, why because they know it is in FUN. A recent "live at The Apollo special" had Al Murray, poke fun at 4 girls in the front row apparently belittling their careers as "secretaries" did they take offence? No they howled along with the rest of the audience and revelled in the fact that they were involved.
For heavens sake lighten up!
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Dusty

aka Max Gordon.
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RobertTemple
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Hypnotism aside... my major criticism is how clearly that wasn't a casino but rather a slightly dodgy roulette wheel in a studio somewhere.

They spent too long explaining why they couldn't tell us where they were (now we know the real reason). Derren has done a few bits and pieces in casinos over the past few years and they've never obscured the casino's identity before.

They said it was to stop this kind of thing from happening in that casino again or some rubbish... hang on - that would imply that just anyone could do what he apparently did.

Hmmm... disappointing end to the series for me.
Waters
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Quote:
On 2009-10-05 07:17, dusty wrote:
Now I will jump in with a few contentious comments.
There were plenty of comments on last week's show stating that Derren should have a got a least one number wrong. He does that this week and gets hammered for it ???

On the loser, cheap suit etc. comments. Unless the individual concerned is offended then we have no right to be. The Amazing Jonathon abuses audience members throughout the show and the audience love it, why because they know it is in FUN. A recent "live at The Apollo special" had Al Murray, poke fun at 4 girls in the front row apparently belittling their careers as "secretaries" did they take offence? No they howled along with the rest of the audience and revelled in the fact that they were involved.
For heavens sake lighten up!


I did not see the show, but I would like to (humbly) disagree. People laugh when they feel embarassed. There is no other "socially acceptable" response in the situations mentioned. I did not see the program, so I won't comment on Derren in particular, but it is always in "bad form" to belittle a participant or spectator. While everyone may be laughing, it diminishes us all to a bunch of second rate stand-up comics. "Magic" (meaning all mystery entertainment) has suffered enough from being trivialized and being reduced to a joke, I don't think this needs a hand from each of us.

Ironically, I think Jonathon is more stand-up comic and less a magician. I think the magic is just a vehicle for his comedy (not the other way around). Still, this avenue diminishes both. People laugh because they are nervous. It is hardly the "ideal".

People deserve better.


Sincerely,

Sean
dusty
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Hi Sean,
In principle I agree you should not belittle an audience memeber, but in the case of the cheap suit gaga from last week's show, Derren may not have been pointing at anyone! he gestured towrds the audience and delivered the gag, to which everyone laughed. No particular audience member was picked on or shown on screen. So why the outrage. Quite simply knee jerk reaction, and totally unfounded. The context and delivery of a line is paramount in considering the validity or suitablility of the line but as you said, you didn't see the show.
Regards,

Dusty

aka Max Gordon.
"Always give 100%, Unless you're a blood donor!"

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Caliban
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Sean

I can see your point, but having seen the show I think people are over reacting on this one.

It was a very tongue in cheek presentation in which the two participants were given humorous (and clearly made up) identities as "winner" and "loser". It was really no more than asking them to briefly imagine they were playing those roles. Larry Becker had a Ten Card Poker routine where he apparently hypnotised one person to be the luckiest man in the world and the other to be the unluckiest - that's pretty much all that happened here.

The lady was never insulted, she just took part in a lighthearted experiment for which she was given a clearly invented personality trait. And while performers shouldn't insult people for real, it's a valid and well established technique to cast audience members in roles that everyone knows are not real - so that those fake identities can be used for comic effect.
Waters
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..Fair enough.

As I mentioned, I was not really commenting on Derren's show, but rather that practice in general. A "character driven" effect is different than making sport of other people (which is what I was commenting about).


Regards,

Sean
Mind
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Quote:
On 2009-10-05 08:29, Caliban wrote:
It was a very tongue in cheek presentation in which the two participants were given humorous (and clearly made up) identities as "winner" and "loser". It was really no more than asking them to briefly imagine they were playing those roles. Larry Becker had a Ten Card Poker routine where he apparently hypnotised one person to be the luckiest man in the world and the other to be the unluckiest - that's pretty much all that happened here.



But did he not specifically ask for a volunteer who felt they were unlucky/loser?
bobser
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Having blasted the show I have to say at no time did I deel DB's term of "loser" towards the woman was anything more than tongue in cheek and at no time did I personally feel it was offensive
I'd also like to welcome Ken Webster to the forum. Ken if you're reading this, I have a friend (fellow stage hypnotist) who quite simply loves you (in a purely professional way of course ) and will be thrilled to hear you've joined The Café. You might be naughty, but talented you most certainly are... welcome!
But Ken, in spite of all your experience are you entitely sure a person can't be hypnotised to taking money from their bank account and handing it over?

bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
doubletime
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I have a feeling that the objective of "the events" was to raise derrens profile internationally, which it surely has. I personally think they've seen the tenth year coming, realised they need to open up some new avenues, and used the events to open up different territories.

new territories mean he can recycle the (excellent) material that he's amassed over the last decade.
bobser
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Why would THIS raise his profile? Why has it SURELY been succesful? Why would this be a new avenue, and which different territories do you think have been opened up? Who are you? Where do you come from?
Are you Derren Brown and have you been drinking too much port again?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
IAIN
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I felt it was a little too cruel...

I was trying to work out why he did it, sometimes, when you have someone say to you "ooooh I'm just a terrible person sometimes...", if you agree with them, pretty soon they'll punch you, or burst into tears...

but occassionally, they'll come out fighting, saying "hey, I'm not that bad really..i didn't mean it..." then they look embarrassed and see what you just did...

but on national tv - bad derren, dirty derren...too far this time with calling the ugly old troll a loser...

*that last sentence was english humour*
I've asked to be banned
doubletime
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He hit the newsreels in Australis, italy, France, Spain, Germany, Finland, and even brazil (a quick search on the associated press will reveal that it was covered and discussed there for at least two days). The same associated press database will tell you that the uk was the ONLY place where the method was discussed in depth. For the rest of the countries, the myth of predicting the lottery was enough.

Imho, this was a great move for Derren Incorporated.

I think I'm right. But you might be too, bobser. No big deal. It's just telly. not life. or at least, not mine.
Jonathan
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DB needs to read his own book, Absolute Magic and take his own advice about not making fun or taking cheap shots at the audience. Smile

BTW, the reason why you don't do those things is that it makes you like you ARE a comic on "Apollo" or an amazing Johnathan type character...which aren't very respected performers or seen as "high quality". They may be successful and have fans, but we all know that money and success doesn't equal respect and quality in the eyes of the world.
IAIN
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Hmmm...i wonder...

if someone were to want to crack a place in the world that didn't go so well before, and! they wanted publicity AND a bit of buzz about them...

I wonder what they'd do?

if only there were a place in say, the states, where there's lots and lots of casinos...

D'oh!
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mindpunisher
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>>>>They may be successful and have fans, but we all know that money and success doesn't equal respect and quality in the eyes of the world. <<<<

I'll take the cash any time.
bobser
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Hery MP, Ken Webster says he couldn't hypnotise someone to go to their bank, cash money and give it to the hypnotist...........
I've just had a thought. I'm taking this to 'inner thoughts'.....
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Jonathan
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I could, if it was for TV. Smile
AnDraíodóir
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Events of Misdirection... maybe the Events were all about raising his profile, which no one can argue with the fact that they have.
Philip Ryan

"The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know" -Socrates
Anthony Jacquin
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Quote:
On 2009-10-05 14:22, IAIN wrote:
I felt it was a little too cruel...

I was trying to work out why he did it, sometimes, when you have someone say to you "ooooh I'm just a terrible person sometimes...", if you agree with them, pretty soon they'll punch you, or burst into tears...

but occassionally, they'll come out fighting, saying "hey, I'm not that bad really..i didn't mean it..." then they look embarrassed and see what you just did...

but on national tv - bad derren, dirty derren...too far this time with calling the ugly old troll a loser...

*that last sentence was english humour*


of course if the guy ended up with the note then she could have been made a winner after all.

Ant
Anthony Jacquin

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