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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » DB - How To Beat a Casino (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mesaboogie
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Had two gigs last night and Derren's show was still fresh in peoples minds so I made a point of asking people their thoughts. The majority thought it was an excellent show and the miss made them realise how genuine it all was. The age range spanned 20 - 60 yr olds. Need I say more?
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AttnPls
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I did think the "loser" trick was a bit harsh. I felt bad for the girl and expect a star like Derren to be just a little kinder... she needed to ultimately win somehow.

Judging car speed by hearing stretched plausibility a little too far. That sequence needed to be rethought.

The hidden camera casino footage was not terribly compelling either. I would have liked to have seen a guest host take the audience through much of the "real time" sequence while we cut away to Derren in position in the casino, watching the wheel for 20 minutes before it was time to place his bet. Perhaps he could even have done a "practice prediction" or two before the final one where he placed the bet.

Beyond that, I felt that Derren once again provided us with some of the best magic ever made for TV. The premise was superb and compelling. The marketing is just brilliant.

I would LOVE to write for Derren some day. He is truly showing us all how our art can be compellingly pushed into the 21st century.
Mind
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Quote:
On 2009-10-03 06:59, JonWhite wrote:
Also, what about the £20 note trick and the girl he kept calling a loser?

It's one thing to show some "remote viewing" numpty as deluded but this just seemed mean.


This is something that spoilt the Enigma show for me. Many of his comments during the 'Guess Whom' routine in particular I found distasteful.

And I remember him doing this many years ago during a televised comedy charity event (I can't remember which one), and he made some insulting remarks about the audience being cheap. I was about to see him live a few weeks later for the first time and I remember feeling a bit concerned that he would be unpleasant to watch. Gladly he wasn't like that, and it was a great show.

I really don't agree with insulting your audience and making them feel lower than you. It might make everyone else in the room laugh, but I can imagine that some people would not be comfortable on stage with a performer like that. If there is a risk that your spectator may be reluctant to volunteer again in the future, or even be put off seeing you again, then I don't think that's a risk the performer should take. But I guess Derren is in a position where he can take these risks and it won't affect his ticket sales/rating figures too much. Still wrong though, imo.

For the most part I've really enjoyed this series. This final episode was a bit of a let down, but over all still entertaining to watch. Really enjoyed the spray paint effect.
Slim King
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Quote:
On 2009-10-04 10:37, Mesaboogie wrote:
Had two gigs last night and Derren's show was still fresh in peoples minds so I made a point of asking people their thoughts. The majority thought it was an excellent show and the miss made them realise how genuine it all was. The age range spanned 20 - 60 yr olds. Need I say more?


Were the gigs mentalism or music?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Jonathan
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On 2009-10-04 03:36, NFox wrote:
To those saying that the time to get one wrong was during the lottery seem not to understand how promotion works.

In short, you want to knock their socks off, then leave them wanting. That's exactly what Derren did across this four-episode arc.

They say that the best advertisements are the ones that create a deficit in a person subconsciously. What could be a bigger deficit than having no satisfaction after it's been promised to them (I had that through my teenage years. Believe me, it's no fun. Smile)?

Don't take my word for it, just look around the web, where Derren's name is only just a click away. The next time he has a special, he'll have people asking themselves how he can redeem himself. Accordingly, they'll tune it, and just as accordingly, Derren will blow them away all over again.

-Nick


So the way to make it on TV is to start out with something that makes the audience feel cheated and then end with a big failure? With all respect, I think many on here are really reaching to try and find a way that DB might be right. We all know how that works with cold reading and with people who want to believe in the paranormal. No matter what happens, they reframe it and try really hard to find a way to make it still fit what they believe.

The truth is that DB probably did use camera effects (why make everyone think he was if there was no twist ending to the series?) and then insulted the intelligence of the audience. Ending with failure, especially when there was no chance of actually winning, was a huge miscalculation. It might have been okay earlier in the series, but definitely not for the big finale, especially when you needed to redeem yourself!

Publicity isn't always good. Britney Spears, Lindsey Lohan, Michael Jackson, etc. generated some of the most publicity of anyone in history...but it ruined their careers.
iambest
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I wasn't as delighted by this show as all the previous ones but I think you got the big finish all wrong. Didn't anybody see Derren standing with a huge 180 000 pound check outside the van just at the end of the show? Implying that it really wasn't live footage from the casino and that he actually already succeed... Smile
I liked it!
Gilgamesh_The_Librarian
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Quote:
On 2009-10-04 12:53, Jonathan wrote:

So the way to make it on TV is to start out with something that makes the audience feel cheated and then end with a big failure? With all respect, I think many on here are really reaching to try and find a way that DB might be right. We all know how that works with cold reading and with people who want to believe in the paranormal. No matter what happens, they reframe it and try really hard to find a way to make it still fit what they believe.

The truth is that DB probably did use camera effects (why make everyone think he was if there was no twist ending to the series?) and then insulted the intelligence of the audience. Ending with failure, especially when there was no chance of actually winning, was a huge miscalculation. It might have been okay earlier in the series, but definitely not for the big finale, especially when you needed to redeem yourself!

Publicity isn't always good. Britney Spears, Lindsey Lohan, Michael Jackson, etc. generated some of the most publicity of anyone in history...but it ruined their careers.


Agree with Jonathan on this.

The other thing people are saying is that this was Derrens idea of a joke. Well that's fine if the joke is there for your audience to get , but many obviously didn't get it , and that is the would be jokers fault not his audience.

I think the series has been lacklustre and lazy and I had warmed to Derren over the years to suddenly feel a bit insulted by this rubbish. It feels like he really phoned in these performances.

A great shame.
Ian Broadmore
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The show was rubbish, utter crap that raised expectations and had a complete cop out of an ending. I think DB & Objective are treating their audience like idiots, a big mistake.
Give it a few years and DB will go the same way as Paul Daniels, off screen.
Its all very well trying to entertain an audience but when you treat them as Idiots you loose them.
Its impossible to carry any electronic equipment into a casino, and it was so set up. I thought a very cheap show, that just cheapens DB which is a great shame as I think he is a great showman, but DB & Team you cocked up and misjudged your audience big time.
Nikodini
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A big letdown? Oh puhleese! It's a brilliant ending and journalist in UK agree. Check out what The Guardian says:

Quote:
9.53pm: OK, here's the thing. If Derren Brown has come up with a technique to predict the course of a roulette wheel by being able to gauge the speed of the ball and predict where it might land, then it's clearly brilliant, and he should demonstrate it with no ambiguity about where he is and whether it's real. Take it to a real casino, in full view, where we can all see him do it. I'd believe it - he's a clever guy.

All this hidden camera, secret location stuff makes people ask questions about whether it's just a trick, so why do it? I find it frustrating, because I think he's better than this.

9.59pm: Well, this just got interesting. In the casino, Derren was one out, so he loses Ben's money. And then...the show ends.

Now that, ladies and gentlemen, is a twist. I love it. I'm laughing my head off.

10.02pm: I don't really know what to think. You can say what you like about Derren Brown, but he still manages to take you by surprise at the very end. Maybe the point is that sometimes you just can't beat the system, but it was worth it just for the look on Ben's face when he realised he wasn't adding £175,000 to his bank account.

OK, I'm just glad Ben didn't get the money. Does that make me a bad person? Off to the comment box to see what you all think.

10.09pm: Well, that's it for The Events, and whilst I know a lot of people won't agree with me (please don't throw things), the final five minutes of that show made it all worthwhile. I said earlier that it would be the worst ending to a series EVER, but I was wrong. Losing was a risky strategy, but brilliant, and I'm still grinning. Derren, by your usual standards it was a ropey series, but you are nevertheless a master of surprise, and I salute you.


The ending just adds more to the "it's not all a trick, there's skill involved" mystique that this whole show was about. In real world things can go wrong and people just now learned that DB is human.

This is a MUCH BETTER ending than some random guy winning £170,000 (or whatever)! That ending would have been expected and quite BORING!
cakit
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For me, the idea of Derren missing the number by 1 shows that mentalist is not always a 100% effect. However, the casino doesn't seem real. It can be a staged set. Also, true as some of you have said, he could have made a practice prediction first before doing it since he has only 1 shot. The winner and loser effect is a bad effect because he should try to uplift the confidence of the lady rather than constantly saying LOSER.

In totality, I think its a nice show but not a great show. Still a lot of his small effects made me think.
bobser
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Quote:
On 2009-10-04 10:37, Mesaboogie wrote:
Had two gigs last night and Derren's show was still fresh in peoples minds so I made a point of asking people their thoughts. The majority thought it was an excellent show and the miss made them realise how genuine it all was. The age range spanned 20 - 60 yr olds. Need I say more?


I also had 2 gigs last night and yes I was involved in discussions about DB. But I have to say that the majority thought is was sh*te and they all saw through the miss. Need I say more?
Actually perhaps I should. My gigs involved mainly adults of over 25 years old and working in The City.
It does concern me a little that whilst the majority of lay people I talked with found it rubbish some pro workers giggle with glee at how wonderful it was!!! I find this kinda' worrying. But I guess if you liked it... YOU liked it.
But who are we, whether our tastes are better than yours or not, to call you lot plonkers? That simply wouldn't be correct.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Jonathan
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Remember DB's interview before the series? He thought he would probably be most proud of this series. He flopped. He obviously underestimated the audience.

BTW, I didn't see a large check at the end. ?
tmoca
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Quote:
On 2009-10-04 16:26, Jonathan wrote:
Remember DB's interview before the series? He thought he would probably be most proud of this series. He flopped. He obviously underestimated the audience.

BTW, I didn't see a large check at the end. ?


At the very end, you could see one of the guys at the back of the truck was holding a large check. To me, it was to give to the guy if he had won. He didn't so they didn't have to give it to him. That's all I think it was.
nimrod
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Derren shouldn't have ended the show with a miss. Mentalists should never miss (not even slightly) on THE effect of the show.
And yes, the show was a mess. Still the man is a genius. Even his misses are better than the best staff we can do.

Nimrod , Israel
bobser
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I think it's fantastic just how modest mentalists can be in here. Not losers, just modest. Very very modest. And maybe not good. Or confident. Or maybe lacking in self worth. Or maybe, in truth, well not really that good at this stuff. Can't act, can't wear a n--l w----r. Can't open a double en----pe. Can't can't just can't.
Me? I'd wipe the floor with DB. I'd knock him into a tin can. Wow, now that felt great! And no, I'm not really joking that much to be honest.
C'mon you lot, stand up for chrissakes and give yourselves a shake!!!
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Pete Legend
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Lol bobser I agree Smile Derren is a fine performer but feck it everyone has massive potential..

The man is not a god..his one of us..I like him his nice..he probadly drinks tea and eats sandwiches like the rest of us Smile
DT3
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I thought it was GREAT...but probably for different reasons than any mentioned here so far.
keroro
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Personally I thought this was the most entertaining out of the four shows.

Concerning the general publics opinion of the shows, beware that the minority will always shout the loudest (i.e the disgruntled and the fanatics). Those who thought the shows were anywhere between mediocre and great probably won't post about it.
kenwebster
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I am a big fan of Derren but this was an awful series. The Casino show was just so bad. I have been a hypnotist for over 25 years and hypnotised over 10,000 people in 21 years in my show in Blackpool. 35 shows a year for 21 years so I think I know what I am talking about ! Trust me it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to hypnotise anyone to hand over 5k. If this was possible I would be watching the show from my holiday home in Barbados !
adam wake
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I don't understand why it's okay to fool the public into thinking that he can do hypnosis that is deadly and scary, yet when it comes to charlatans and fradualents like psychics and mediums, he has to completely call them out like some kind of truth seeker.

I like derren brown, big fan of him but this crusade to uncover fake spiritualists and psychics is getting boring. A generalization that's being seen is that being a magician means you're also a debunker of the supernatural. Now I know this generalization isn't true but that's how some tv magicians make it come across as. This seems to be some kind of trend.

I for one couldn't care about the frauds and charalatans, I don't believe in the supernatural and I never will, so I won't waste time debunking it. And I know a ton of magicians here think the same.

Of course Derren does say that everything he does is a trick, it's just that he does seem to try and bs the public and I don't see much difference to that and some charlatan (not talking about those who may money on dead loved ones because that's messed up and in it's own catergory.)

Any Hypnotist will tell you that what he did was not a trick, it was purely fake. It was acting. I just don't consider that good magic.
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