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TonyB2009
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Guys, I am really touched that you are so concerned for me. But let me assure you that a simple world can be a very beautiful, wonderful, colourful place. And I have no hang-ups or belief systems to come between me and the world. I can just enjoy it for what it is. And I do. I relish every minute of it, and every experience it throws up. Its not brown. Its not grey. Its a rainbow.

On a more serious note, John Tudor's post might need a bit of a look. I would share your concerns, John, but the way you expressed them clearly identifies one individual, making your post shakey in terms of defamation law. All the best, Tony.
doormouse
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Accusations like that are dangerous. Guess you can claim a typo error Smile
mindpunisher
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>>>And I have no hang-ups or belief systems to come between me and the world. I can just enjoy it for what it is. And I do. I relish every minute of it, and every experience it throws up. Its not brown. Its not grey. Its a rainbow.<<<

that's interesting belief system you have Tony. The man whos belief system believes he has no beliefs or hang-ups. (get his wife on here lets find out who the real Tony is)I don't believe that for minute. And believe me I like believing. Because I believe we should choose our beliefs carefully.

I think there's a difference between believing and denial.

THE WORLD IS WHAT IT IS BECAUSE OF WHAT WE BELIEVE. Would you believe?
PsiDroid
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Quote:
On 2009-10-14 08:05, mindpunisher wrote:
>>>And I have no hang-ups or belief systems to come between me and the world. I can just enjoy it for what it is. And I do. I relish every minute of it, and every experience it throws up. Its not brown. Its not grey. Its a rainbow.<<<

that's interesting belief system you have Tony. The man whos belief system believes he has no beliefs or hang-ups.


lol

rather impossible indeed: problem is that his belief system is looping on itself causing tony to think he has NO belief system which come between him and the world

would be funny if was not possibly problematic for him: since we know that no one can perceive reality without any kind of filter

wait !! maybe tony is not human then. maybe hes an alien coming from a distant planet in another galaxy: only then I would believe he has no beliefs
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On 2009-10-14 08:58, PsiDroid wrote:
would be funny if was not possibly problematic for him: since we know that no one can perceive reality without any kind of filter

Do we really know this, or do you just believe it? Can a dog perceive reality, or are you suggesting a dog has belief systems?
Things are simple really. If something has been proved, I accept it. If something remains unproved because all the evidence has not been analysed or is not in yet, I retain an open mind. If something has no evidence to back it up, I reject it. My view of the world is determined by evidence, not my beliefs (which, in most cases are not our own beliefs, but the beliefs foisted upon us by our parents and the society we grew up in.) Tony.
John Tudor
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OK, thanks anyway, guys.
"Ars longa, vita brevis." (Life is short, the art so long to learn) -Hippocrates
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2009-10-13 19:13, mindpunisher wrote:

And then theres the thing where someone might be traumatized for life after thinking he/she is a chicken in public.

I love chicken I think it deserves more respect than that.


You're awfully concerned with this even thought there's no proof that this happens. Did you have a lot of problems with this when you actually did shows?
PsiDroid
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Quote:
On 2009-10-14 09:23, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-14 08:58, PsiDroid wrote:
would be funny if was not possibly problematic for him: since we know that no one can perceive reality without any kind of filter

Do we really know this, or do you just believe it? Can a dog perceive reality, or are you suggesting a dog has belief systems?


gotcha tony !!

does not matter if is MY belief or if is YOUR belief which is right. you just expressed a chain of things that lead you to believe in something or not: so that was my point Mr. "I have no beliefs between me and the outside world"

Quote:
On 2009-10-14 09:23, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-14 08:58, PsiDroid wrote:
would be funny if was not possibly problematic for him: since we know that no one can perceive reality without any kind of filter

Do we really know this, or do you just believe it? Can a dog perceive reality, or are you suggesting a dog has belief systems?


gotcha tony !!

does not matter if is MY belief or if is YOUR belief which is right. you just expressed a chain of things that lead you to believe in something or not: so that was my point Mr. "I have no beliefs between me and the outside world"
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2009-10-14 10:08, John Tudor wrote:
OK, thanks anyway, guys.


To answer your question amongst the usual off tangent growth of these threads:

yes this guy sounds like a creep. I assume part of your question is can he use hypnosis to abuse someone? Yes he can without doubt. Is he dangerous? He could be that's got nothing to do with hypnosis he could just as easily use a gun.

As for the legal side? I don't know I guess it could fall under assalt of some kind.
But I am no legal expert.

Quote:
On 2009-10-14 11:18, PsiDroid wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-14 09:23, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-14 08:58, PsiDroid wrote:
would be funny if was not possibly problematic for him: since we know that no one can perceive reality without any kind of filter

Do we really know this, or do you just believe it? Can a dog perceive reality, or are you suggesting a dog has belief systems?


gotcha tony !!

does nt matter if is MY belief or if is YOUR belief which is right. you just expressed a chain of things that lead you to believe in something or not: so that was my point Mr. "I have no beliefs between me and the outside world"


We all k now Tony has been got loads of times but he doesn't believe in those things like being caught its much more simple than that hes mad as a lepracorn... (canny speel it)
TonyB2009
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Guys, I don't understand quite how I've been 'got' here. But perhaps I'm thick. It's been suggested before.
But on a more serious issue, John, the guy you are talking about is probably abusing his skills as a hypnotist. Anything can be abused. He will only be brought to book if one of his victims makes a complaint. Then he can be done for either assault or harrassment.
You, on the other hand, can be done for libel if you do not amend your original post. It is unlikely that he reads these threads, but if he ever does he has a strong case against you now. that's advice from a former journalist with extensive training in the libel laws. Tony.
mindpunisher
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What needs amended specifically? The reference to being thrown out of two churches or what? A defrocked minister? Apart from that it could be anyone.
John Tudor
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The person who told me he'd ben thrown out of 2 churches checked some recoreds and the "thrown out" part was exaggerated, he seems to have left where he was under some mutual agreement, at least in one case.
So consider it amended.
"Ars longa, vita brevis." (Life is short, the art so long to learn) -Hippocrates
ScHeRzO
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Dear friends thank you for being so helpfull with your opinios. Its a pleasure to share with you at the café.

Greetings
Scherzo
TonyB2009
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Guys, in legal terms the truth is NOT a defence against defamation. And you have already rowed back from the statement that he was thrown out of two churches.

Knowing that he is a defrocked minister with an interest in hypnosis and knowing your home town it would only take a matter of minutes for me to get his name. That makes your statement defamatory, and unless you have a good lawyer or you are absolutely certain he will never discover this thread (he has an interest in hypnosis so I would not take that risk) you need to seriously ammend your original post.

Maybe you have deep pockets and all this does not matter to you. But please remember Americans are the second most likely people to sue (behind us Irish). All the best, Tony.
doormouse
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It is a shame that someone would attack someone else on rumors. There is no proof to any of these allegations. Only what John has heard (not witnessed). Why ruin someone John when you do not know?
John Tudor
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Thanks Tony. I'm done here.
"Ars longa, vita brevis." (Life is short, the art so long to learn) -Hippocrates
ArtIn
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Hello everybody,

I thought this thread is the best for posting my concern.

There are so many people out there who make it hard for anyone to learn correctly. hard to decide what is wrong and right about hypnosis.
people who make it hard to learn about it.

which angle is correct?



there are enemies of hypnosis who think hypnosis is too dangerous for someone who did'nt have studied about psychology!

it causes pychosis!!!

leaves subjects with headache and bad dreams.

it changes them. After hypnosis gigs people were different

They tell you that hypnosis is a weapon. even in this thread here

They say hypnosis is a deep intrusion in someones personality.

Hypnotists playing with fire.

There are people who believe hypnotizing is a serious crime to human beeing.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I want to be responsible for my action.
I am getting confused why there is so much negative thinking about it
when so much other people try to teach positive about it.

I neither interessted in therapy nor then doing age regression.
I want the best for my subjects. no therapy, no bad feelings, I try to not support allergies by suggestions, I am into deep thoughts about safty. I try to avoid physical risk.

Making them think positive and take away there fears about hypnosis.

There are trainers who say that "empty hypnosis" is'nt harmful at all.
(Leerhypnose = german - like doing a concentration exercise with someone. then doing a induction and giving positive feelings followed by a wake up progress.)
What can go wrong with this one? psychosis? a late nightmare for somebody?
whats wrong about a cataleptic arm?

I believe that hypnosis is a normal daily experienced state of mind.
I am excited about hypnosis and try to stand on the opposite positive site.

_______________________________________________________

Just a list of different opinions.

Can someone please clarify for me and everybody who met such hypnosis
enemies. What to really believe?

Everybody is arguing about properness but less are helping others to avoid mistakes.
Some may suggest that not learning hypnosis would avoid mistakes.
this is not my way of learning.

Where is a "effort to avoid mistakes with hypnosis" Thread?

Can please someone tell me something about psychosis and it's REAL danger.
Why you guys are hypnotizing if every second or third spectator could have a traumatically past, a deep sitting psychosis or at least be neurotic?
That's how hypnosis enemies are talking about. what and how to answer?

I do not want to harm people by my goodwill of making themself feel good.
(for example)

sorry for my groggy english!

all the best,
art
mindpunisher
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You will not get a complete clarification on this forum The reason being the majority earn a living doing stage hypnosis so their views are biast. They will tell you it is completely safe when in fact it isn't. Some will tell you to read half a book then go do a show. Some will tell you to buy DVDS. Some will tell you to do training.

My personal view is if you are seriously interested in hypnosis get training full stop. While I do not think it is as dangerous as some suggestions from the psychologists and health professionals who also have their agendas for making those claims - hypnosis is not totally free from danger either.

You will find that most on here claim it totally harmless. It is somewhere in between. But that shouldn't deter you from learning. Just learn sensibly and do not take hypnosis lightly.


If you have respect for your volunteers or clients then get good training.
Dannydoyle
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Nothing in the hands of man is totally harmless. Nothing. Seriously.

Now as for what the actual dangers are that is another story. I think th lagest danger by far is someone falling and hurting themself in one way or another. Even from just walking up the stairs unattended.

I have seen many hpnotists who could seem to care less about people getting to the stage. Non perminant staging, strange stairs and such. Heck once I saw a persons leg of the chair they were using go through a partition of 2 joined stage sections, joined wrong.

So is "hypnosis" dangerous? Well that probably can be debated. Certainly a clever hypnotist knows how to avoid 99% of those dangers. BUT the environment can be quite dangerous.

Oh my new favorite is those who somehow think it is dramatic to just let people flop to the stage or drop them right on the stage. Any time they leave the chair to fall on the stage is just bad in my opinion.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
dmkraig
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I think part of the problem in answering this valid question is because people tend to group a bunch of things together as "hypnosis." For example, people ask, "Will hypnosis help me stop smoking or lose weight?" Many people will answer in the affirmative, but the real answer is no.

Hypnosis, and the induction of hypnosis, have never, in thousands of years of experience, harmed anyone. Period. Full stop. Further, hypnosis and at least one induction of hypnosis can be taught in an hour or less.

The important thing--and what makes a good hypnotherapist or good performer--is what you do AFTER a person is hypnotized. Although you cannot physically harm a person with hypnosis (at least there's no record of such a thing), it is possible to put a person is a position where he or she can be harmed physically or mentally.

Frankly, this is greatly overstated. People fall down and hurt themselves thousands of times a day. How often does it happen while a person is a participant of a stage show? Rarely. Teachers and parents and religious authorities smash the wills and beliefs of children and adults regularly. How often do hypnotherapists cause any sort of harm to their clients? Rarely.

So is harming someone something to be aware of? Yes. Is it something to have a concern for? Yes. Is it something to study and be trained in to avoid or know how to quickly overcome it? I believe so.

But is it something to be paranoid about? I do not believe so. Prepare, yes. Be afraid, no.

And I agree with MP (gasp!). Get a good training. In fact, take many trainings.
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