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TonyB2009
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Hi Mindpunisher. I do believe hypnosis is a mix of pretense and social compliance. But you know that. We have been down that road before, and no one convinced anyone. So lets not revisit it.
The original question was could someone get stuck in a trance. No matter what your beliefs about hypnosis, we all know that this cannot happen. At least on that we have agreement. Tony.
PsiDroid
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Quote:
On 2009-10-06 17:48, TonyB2009 wrote:
Hi Mindpunisher. I do know for sure no one got stuck in a chair for twelve hours. And I do know for sure the guy who had his hands stuck for the duration of my show was skivving off work.

The world is a far simpler place than we might like to believe. There is no need to look beyond the obvious for explanations. Tony.


Believing in nothing is as stupid as believing in everything

who wrote this quote ??

clearly not you Tonyb2009
dmkraig
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Well, then, Kiss, in the words of Emily Litella, "Oh. That's different. Never mind."
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On 2009-10-06 21:34, PsiDroid wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-06 17:48, TonyB2009 wrote:
The world is a far simpler place than we might like to believe. There is no need to look beyond the obvious for explanations. Tony.


Believing in nothing is as stupid as believing in everything

who wrote this quote ??

clearly not you Tonyb2009


Hi PsiDroid. Unfortunately all that comes from me - not from any profound mind. But I have found it to be so.

As a child I was fascinated by tales of fakirs in India and Nepal doing wonderful things. Gradually I managed to do many of those things - walk on hot coals, chew lightbulbs, drive skewers through my arms. And I learnt that all these things are achieved by completely natural means. Walking on coals was a particular revelation. It did not involve any mental state, any beliefs. The physics of heat transfer from charcoal make it possible.

I spent thirty years meditating (still do it) and experienced many profound states of mind, but again completely natural, and no great spiritual revelations.

Two years ago I got the chance to visit Nepal. Walking off the plane I caught my first real glimpse of the wonderful fakirs, and I saw them for what they were - colourful street beggers. It was a disappointment, but not a surprise.

The world is a wonderful place, but in the end it is quite a simple place. As a mathematician I was trained that the most simple solution is probably the right solution. It has rarely let me down. Tony.
kissdadookie
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Ha ha Dmkraig. Smile
ScHeRzO
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Great Tony. Much to learn from you I have.!

Scherzo
Andy3142
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I agree, it's totally not possible to get stuck in hypnosis any more than in meditation. But there's a thing which can happen in therapeutic hypnosis when a person makes some deep emotional connection during the session. This is that when they get home they feel an overwhelming need to sleep, can't keep their eyes open, and have to go to bed and sleep. I don't know why this happens but it does, occasionally. This could perhaps account for urban myths of people getting stuck.
Regards

Andy
bobser
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Interesting Andy. I remember whilst learning The Silva Method that everytime some student said 'I'm feeling sleepy' or I'm getting a mild headache' or 'I feel a buzz going right through me' or 'my stomach is feeling queesy' or 'Man I just wanted to stay in there' or I couldn't sleep last night' or 'it seemed so real' or it didn't seem real' or.... okay you get the picture by now (LOL).
Invariably I noticed the stock answer to all of these was: "That's ok, we have found in our courses that many of our students have said exactly that over many years. So don't worry, it just means it's working and it's perfectly natural."
By the way I did actually enjoy Silva's course and felt I took a lot out of it.

bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Daniel Nicholls
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The main danger with hypnosis is not looking after your specs correctly. Make sure the area your performing in is safe and that any instructions you give are thought out properly. Remember that these people are at your mercy and as such you should treat them as if they were blind.
Close your eyes. Open your senses.
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2009-10-07 08:08, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-06 21:34, PsiDroid wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-06 17:48, TonyB2009 wrote:
The world is a far simpler place than we might like to believe . There is no need to look beyond the obvious for explanations. Tony.


Believing in nothing is as stupid as believing in everything

who wrote this quote ??

clearly not you Tonyb2009


The world is a wonderful place, but in the end it is quite a simple place. As a mathematician I was trained that the most simple solution is probably the right solution. It has rarely let me down. Tony.


Your not talking about solutions you are talking about beliefs YOUR beliefs. People do get their hands stuck together. People do have amnesia, people do things they have no control over whilst on stage. These things happen off stage too. To reference mathmatics on a hypnosis forum is like putting snow in your underpants to keep warm.

its no wonder you have such a weird view of everything.
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On 2009-10-12 04:06, mindpunisher wrote:
To reference mathmatics on a hypnosis forum is like putting snow in your underpants to keep warm.

its no wonder you have such a weird view of everything.


Just for your information snow is a wonderful insulator. Which is why the Inuit use it to make igloos. Tony.

PS: Andy 3412, that's an interesting point. Thanks.
PsiDroid
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Quote:
On 2009-10-12 13:31, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-12 04:06, mindpunisher wrote:
To reference mathmatics on a hypnosis forum is like putting snow in your underpants to keep warm.

its no wonder you have such a weird view of everything.


Just for your information snow is a wonderful insulator. Which is why the Inuit use it to make igloos. Tony.



This is true but not the same thing. are you playing dumb ??

then try to put snow or ice in your crotch as mindpunisher suggested and then you'll see how warm you'll feel
bobser
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Dear PsiDroid,
As you know, I've never minced words with you and I've always considered you to be a complete twit. And that's not because I'm incredibly wise (albeit I am) but rather because it's so obvious that you are a PROPER WOLLOPER!
If you're going to use analogy, take a moment, think, then pm either myself, Tony or MP and we'll show you how to write your thoughts in a way where you won't look like a total and complete eejit.
Now please re-enter your saferoom and continue playing with your tajer.

bobser
(look upon me as the mentor you haven't appreciated ... yet)
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2009-10-12 13:31, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-12 04:06, mindpunisher wrote:
To reference mathmatics on a hypnosis forum is like putting snow in your underpants to keep warm.

its no wonder you have such a weird view of everything.


I

Just for your information snow is a wonderful insulator. Which is why the Inuit use it to make igloos. Tony.

PS: Andy 3412, that's an interesting point. Thanks.


They build it around themselves not inside their pants... That sums up how you think about and use hypnosis. You apply the same logic.

Did anyone ever check your formulas? You did pass the maths exam?

This is what happens when you get too clever and try to add and multiply letters as well as numbers.
John Tudor
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What about danger with hypnotists?

There's a guy in my town - a hypnotist who has a clinical practice (not sure how he's licensed) who loves to show up ay events and parties, even bars, and do spontaneous hypnosis sessions with intoxicated women.
Many who know him are extremely creeped out by him, afterwards felt uneasy/violated, convinced that he is a kind of predator. I don't know if anything beyond these inappropriate scenes has occured.
I don't now much about him, except that he's a defrocked minister, fired from two churches for reasons unknown.
I thought it was just unethical - but recently I discovered several women who want to "take him down" - that is catch him in this and publicly expose him - oblige him to leave town. I had to ask "catch him in what?" They are very concerened about him but not sure to the extent he's crossed the line.

I know this all in very broad strokes, but what are your thoughts, guys?
"Ars longa, vita brevis." (Life is short, the art so long to learn) -Hippocrates
mindpunisher
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Sounds like your average hypnotist to me...
Hostile18
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I agree that hypnosis is safe "if performed properly". But then fire-eating, walking on broken glass, high-flying trapeze acts and shooting things with guns are all safe "if performed properly". It's a pretty broad caveat.

Hypnosis in and of itself is not dangerous, but an incompetent or malicious person can be dangerous with or without hypnosis. Hypnosis is a powerful tool and almost all tools can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

Perhaps that's too obvious to be worth stating, but it worries me how little caution some people employ.
dmkraig
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I once had a friend who went to the circus. She immediately set herself up giving clown shows and teaching other people to be clowns. Later, I learned of horrendous errors she made in everything from colors to use in make up to how to present skits. The only thing the people who hired her as a clown lost was a good entertainer. People who took her classes lost their money and eventually interest. A few went on to real clown schools.

I have disagreed with MP's claim that the problem with lots of people teaching hypnosis is simply that they're teaching it. I still disagree. However, there are people without much formal training who are "teaching" how to do hypnosis on You Tube, on DVDs, etc. Personally, I LIKE what they teach as they show bad examples of teaching and good examples of what to avoid. Most people who try their stuff are going to fail and become disappointed, abandoning their study of hypnosis (which probably wasn't too strong in the first place). Basically, a few people will lose some relatively small amounts of money. No major harm and the suckers should take it as a lesson in life.

On the other hands, some people getting that bad training will be able to hypnotize, and without adequate training--including how to avoid problems--they could have problematic results. As Hostile18 points out, this is nothing specific to hypnosis. More bad parents are screwing up their kids today than all the bad hypnotists in history and the future will ever do. It wasn't a hypnotist who created Eddie Gein!

As many people have stated, the primary cause of injury with stage hypnosis is someone bumping into something or falling off the stage. It's not trance that is the problem, it's idiot hypnotists. If you just PAY ATTENTION to what's going on, stage shows are not going to harm anyone. Unfortunately, although you can make something virtually idiot proof, you can't make it *** idiot proof. And it is the *** idiots who will get into the papers...and not in a good way.

There are idiot doctor, plumbers, lawyers, and hypnotists. All will get into trouble by screwing people up. The problem, however, is not medicine, plumbing, law, or hypnosis, it's idiots. They would find a way to screw people up no matter what.

Perhaps the ultimate idiot, IMO, was a guy named Robert Strange McNamara. When he led Ford Motors, he was responsible for the Edsel, one of their worst failures. When he led the U.S. military, he created the policy known as MAD: Mutually Assured Destruction, a policy that has wasted trillions of dollars that could have been spent elsewhere. His policies during the Viet Nam war were disastrous. From there he went on to head the World Bank, resulting in worldwide economic meltdowns. He was an idiot responsible for ruining economies and destroying tens of thousands of lives and hundreds of thousands of families. And he never hypnotized one person.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Hypnosis isn't dangerous. Idiots are dangerous. It doesn't matter what they do, they're still dangerous, so idiots doing hypnosis are dangerous--not because of the hypnosis, but because they're idiots. Gas ovens usually aren't dangerous. Blow out the pilot light and stick your head in the oven and you'll find it dangerous.
mindpunisher
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Well making guns to easy to get hold of does kill people. Because the easier it is the more idiots that get hold of it and that applies to hypnosis. If all of a sudden we could pass ourself off as plumbers or doctors without adequate training we would kill a lot more people.

Hyonosis doesn't kill people but selling it to anyone with a few bucks , encouraging them to perform in streets after reading a book or watching a few DVDS IS dangerous. You wouldn't see plumbers or doctors in the main stream after reading a book or DVD. Therefore its a useless comparison.

And then theres the thing where someone might be traumatized for life after thinking he/she is a chicken in public.

I love chicken I think it deserves more respect than that.

Quote:
On 2009-10-07 08:08, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-06 21:34, PsiDroid wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-06 17:48, TonyB2009 wrote:
The world is a far simpler place than we might like to believe. There is no need to look beyond the obvious for explanations. Tony.


This is the sad thing Tony,


Believing in nothing is as stupid as believing in everything

who wrote this quote ??

clearly not you Tonyb2009


Hi PsiDroid. Unfortunately all that comes from me - not from any profound mind. But I have found it to be so.

As a child I was fascinated by tales of fakirs in India and Nepal doing wonderful things. Gradually I managed to do many of those things - walk on hot coals, chew lightbulbs, drive skewers through my arms. And I learnt that all these things are achieved by completely natural means. Walking on coals was a particular revelation. It did not involve any mental state, any beliefs. The physics of heat transfer from charcoal make it possible.

I spent thirty years meditating (still do it) and experienced many profound states of mind, but again completely natural, and no great spiritual revelations.

Two years ago I got the chance to visit Nepal. Walking off the plane I caught my first real glimpse of the wonderful fakirs, and I saw them for what they were - colourful street beggers. It was a disappointment, but not a surprise.

The world is a wonderful place, but in the end it is quite a simple place. As a mathematician I was trained that the most simple solution is probably the right solution. It has rarely let me down. Tony.


You know the sad thing Tony is is that the "obvious" is that all the above things do indeed exist. THEY ARE ALL NATURAL. It's no wonder you cannot see what is in front of your eyes and inside you.

Its not that the word is a simple place. I'ts that your world is a simple place because you shut yourself off from the reality that's taking place.

You say you are a hypnotist. Yet you don't recognize that people do get their hands stuck together. They do experience amnesia and by and large they do lose control of their actions...

But its your expectation of some supernatural occurance that doesn't happen - that blinds you to the reality before.

all social compliance its nothing special really its just hypnosis.

For someone who has been mediatating for so long I think its sad you haven't had any "spiritual" revalations. Your life must be a world of no colour.
PsiDroid
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On 2009-10-13 19:26, mindpunisher wrote:


You know the sad thing Tony is is that the "obvious" is that all the above things do indeed exist. THEY ARE ALL NATURAL. It's no wonder you cannot see what is in front of your eyes and inside you.

Its not that the word is a simple place. I'ts that your world is a simple place because you shut yourself off from the reality that's taking place.

You say you are a hypnotist. Yet you don't recognize that people do get their hands stuck together. They do experience amnesia and by and large they do lose control of their actions...

But its your expectation of some supernatural occurance that doesn't happen - that blinds you to the reality before.

all social compliance its nothing special really its just hypnosis.

For someone who has been mediatating for so long I think its sad you haven't had any "spiritual" revelations.

Your life must be a world of no colour.


or a world of just one color: brown
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