Thanks for this thread PsiSam.

I won't go into my feelings on this. I coined the phrase back in 1942. Just the same, here's someone doing it for real for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NoB5MJSZy4

Dt3

Oh, neat! I enjoy that thoroughly!

Oh, that was soooooo worth it! Just awesome!

Nathan

I think that a true message from your inner guidance ( intuition ) will be one that is both practical and wise. I do this a lot in my readings. There is a difference between the voice of the ego and a true intuitive voice.

I have only recently chance upon, or by chance been directed, to this forum; and am not sure whether to plunge in or merely wade through. I sense, more than intuitively, several hidden agendas (or in the case or some ‘nay-sayers’ agendum) drawn from previous discussions, forums, sites and forays. I had decided to converse off-list with several here who seem to have some congruency of thought but have not received any ready reply. Perhaps the players of this game are inclusive to some game of which I am unawares. None the less, I have experiences and insight to share on the issues at hand (or mind), especially those that appear to be incomplete or fringed with fallacy. In short, I do not “believe” that “doing the real thing” is possible, but “know” that it is not only possible but controllable. I have saved peoples lives by applying techniques that many would consider paranormal, but to me are as normal as scratching an itch. More importantly, I have aided thousands of people by knowing what they wish to say but can’t, and by finding a way to reveal their own truths in a manner they can accept.

The problem of joining in here is the amount of equivocation over basic terms essential to cogent discourse, and I wonder if this forum is the proper place to pursue such weighty issues. My experience is that any Internet based discussion is so “fraught with peril” that one finds himself either singing to a choir or suffering from an onslaught of despair having little to do with the actual theme. So, perhaps someone could appraise this late-comer of the likelihood that this thread will go anywhere except in circles.

In more simple terms – is there a better place to discuss these things? Is there a better way to discuss them that will avoid acrimony and personal attacks? Is there a reason why I should be here? Maybe it will even be fun.

I'm from the Seattle area and this guy hit it RIGHT ON !!!!!!!!!

SECOND AT BAT ... FIRST HOME RUN ... THREE AND ONE PITCH ... EXACT LOCATION!!!!!!

See .... I told you it could be done

Funsway

I would be personally interested in your thoughts on this

Any PMs will be assuredly responded to. Maybe PM is the best forum for attack-less and frank discussion

Kam

I think the attacking has been minimal. I feel that for once we are safe. Or at least until they begin testing the waters again
I have another example that I will share soon, and I hope others do too.

I also think a statement by Jay Are is worth looking into. I liked it quite a bit.

For 'real' mystical fun then, read the story at

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=32&4

Here is a true story that sort of applies.

CHINESE PAINTINGS
I knew that my younger brother Jon had inherited some ‘things Chinese’ from his mother-in-law. I had already received a couple of small painting and some bookends from her estate years ago – when she had gone into a nursing home. When I visited his Nevada home a week ago, I was not prepared for the incredible paintings, nick-nacks and furniture – nor the story of how they came to her.

She was working in China in 1947 as single 25 year old woman. With the change of political regime and the rise of Mao, all foreign nationals were give three weeks to leave the country. So Hazel crated up her personal items including various items she had picked up as decorations – hardly a collector or thought of value, but many families were leaving the country and prices had been good.

Then the rules changed – any one not traveling within 24 hours would be arrested! The only passage she could secure was on the Trans-Siberian Railway, with only one suitcase. Everything was abandoned in labeled wooden crates in the house she had rented. In a reverse adventure of Ingrid Bergman in “inn of the Sixth Happiness”, Hazel traveled from Mongolia to Vienna – alone. The rest of her life with a special husband, international business consultant could fill a book also, but this is about Chinese paintings. (I think he was CIA).

In 1992, with a change in the Chinese attitude about dealing with the Western world, Hazel received a magickal surprise. Her crates arrived! No shipping charges – unopened – no damage – no explanation. Not a gift either, probably – just an efficiency imbedded in the oriental mind, and perhaps Communism – or a desire to make peace with the world.

We do not always need answers.

To me, being a student of human nature means what it says -- I study the way that human beings behave under a variety of circumstances. It's been an interest of mine all my life, and something I became more involved in during my university years.

- entity

Rather than 'benefit' the use of such a gift must relate to potential 'harm', methinks. This also is subjective, of course, but consider that during a demonstration you have this 'desired' flash of "real mind reading." You have violated a person's privacy and mental seclusion. If that person is the one voluteering for the trick you might have less cause for concern, but there is an ethical consideration either way. Then there is consideration of what to do with the information so revealed. What if it relates to a health issue or a crime?

Such considerations should be made before beginning the demonstration. One might view that any gift comes with some responsibility, but here you are dealing with someone's life, not just a game for entertainment. When you speak of 'real' mental work you must be 'real' about everything. On the plus side, it is possible that only those with a selfless and beneficient nature might have the experiences (yeah, right!).

If you gather that this is not hypothetical with me you are correct. As with any experiment involving people ask yourself the question, "Am I prepared for success?"

In my mentalism only shows, I always include my Human Lie Detector routine, where I rely solely on my training in kinesic interviewing and interpretation and oral and written statement analysis to determine who is lying and who is telling the truth. This never fails to get a big pop from the audience.

For me, and others using other methods, it is knowing that you can do something a bit more special than others claiming to use the same method but really aren't because they are using a "trick." So personally, when I rely on my ability alone, yes, the end does justify the means.

Peace.

In order "to do real stuff' you have to act, not just get brain farts.

I have experiences in this. In the early 60's I performed "Contact Mindreading" demonstrations rather frequently, basically Helstromism with other methods learned from Arnold Furst by onservation and coaching. In about a third of these experiments I had some 'insight' or 'premonition' of the complete outcome not accountable from muscle reading or non-verbal clues. All authors I read on the subject (not the recent ones) suggested taking the risk and following the insight rather thna continuing the experiment, noting that your success rate would drop but that the rewards would be greater. Hannusen believed in actual 'far sight' but did not attempt to create it in a performance, but would act on insight.

Personally, I feel that we pick up a lot of clues from the audience that we are not consciously aware of, plus are able to learn patterns of behavior for certain people the suggests a selction of particular tests. However, it is possible that one can increase his adept or adroit sensitivity with exposure. Whether or not you should attempt such an experiment during a show is another matter. So, I would say:

I have many personal and observed experience I can share here of a "real" nature. Convince me this is the time and place to share them.

Dave, come back!

Back injury and a 4 month old "Fullback" have slowed me down considerably (Not to mention the POWERBALL thing)

Here is an example of doing it for "REAL"..
No tap dancing .... Just .... IN YOUR FACE PREDICTIONS

Done before the event and in full view of everyone (Not that sealed predictions are not just as valid)
My son Matt has played in dozens of bands (Mine include .. Played drums for a festival of 40,000 once)

A while back he joined a band from a small town in the backwoods of Oregon boasting only one stoplight and less than 2,000 folks spread out all over the hills.

The Band was called BROADWAY CALLS

I saw them play in front less than 30 kids in a warehouse ..

My Super Intuition, Psychic Sight, or whatever you want to call it, kicked in and I made the prediction that this band would "Make It"!!!!!

I went so far as to post the prediction on the largest Pseudo-Skeptic forum in the world (They didn't like it one bit!!!!! (They even threatened my children.....but that's a different story)

The Prediction was blatantly IN THEIR FACE!!!! FOR ALL TO SEE IT COMMING.

The band went from a tiny basement to the cover of AMERICAN MUSIC PRESS !!!!

Also... A two page spread in Kerrrang magazine in the UK and a new CD on a great label and a European Tour with The Offspring while playing at the Reading and Leeds festivals there.
They are currently on tour in the US, playing 200 dates per year.
Their CD has gotten good reviews in virtually every Pop/Punk magazine in existence.

Three kids from a small backwoods town

If it's some kind of Magic Trick, I bet I could sell it to every band in the world

It was an Intuitive Prediction that came true !!!!!!

(I make less than 20 predictions a year and this was the only one involving a band)
Just in case you argue that I make zillions of predictions .... I don't!

It could very well be proud papa, but it could very well be gut instinct. A lot of people write off that gut feeling when it fact it is pretty accurate, it is a survival instinct. It's what tells you something is wrong, out of place, out of sorts; it's what causes the hair on the arm to rise and gives you that chill up your spine for no reason when you may be discerning or have been discerning something.

Gut instinct is what leads a homicide detective to say, "It has all the hallmarks of suicide but it isn't, just give me an extra day." Or, " I don't think mamma and daddy are being completely honest about their missing or suddenly dead child."

Gut instinct is what tells you whatever you are about to do may be a good, bad or other wise move.

I think far too many have 'acted' and indeed do, but alas it's remains only an act.
And I absolutely do NOT believe that this is the time or the place for this. There just has to be other chat rooms.

Go in peace.
bobser

I don't know but we all have weird occurences. The other week I was on a bus on my way into town for a few pints. For some reason I was thinking about two people Ive not seen in 20 years and the other about 12 years. The bus driver was the brother of one and I bumped into the other in town. Coincedence? Who knows. I also "predicted" Jacksons death during a casual conversation.

It was when he was doing those dodgy press engagements just before the tour was about to start. I said that it would never happen and that Jackson didn't have long to live. Ok it could all be coincedence but then again?