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Jerome Finley
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Thank you, Nate. I know you do!

My post should have read, "To me there is nothing sadder in MAGIC AND MENTALISM than magicians who don't believe in magic or mind readers who refuse to embrace THE POSSIBILITY of real mind reading or at least try it (or at the very least NOT harp on those of us who do)."

There are many things which can make the world a dreary place. I'm speaking about performance art and specifically magic and mentalism with that remark. Smile
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dmoses
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Amen guys.

I'd suggest that even the most psychically skeptical performer would be "doing it for real" constantly in a performance. From picking the "best" spectator for an effect, to pacing a performance by taking advantage of the natural rhythms of his audience.

And putting aside sincere performances of psychometry or QA on which you might rely on your natural knowing and intuition... just simple psychological forces I use are adjusted based on the person I'm performing for.

I'm always looking for that moment of real minding.

Funny, Fabulous Monster was playing on Enigma again this week (in Canada) and watching Max Maven really read minds during his performance was fascinating.

d
"You're a comedian. You wanna do mankind a service, tell funnier jokes."
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Slim King
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So far so good ... No Bloodletting Yet !!!!!!
I'm so happy !!!!! Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
burst
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I'm actually in the process of leaning more towards what you communicated here, Jerome. For the past ten days, I've remained silent. As in, words aren't escaping my lips. My intuition has been improving with each passing day. Relationships are becoming stronger. Strangers feel an intense connection to me. I went to a show Tuesday evening, and at the end the performer and I hugged before I left the venue. Outside the show, as I was leaving, just about every single person outside hugged me before I left. I maybe knew half of them. During the show, a girl literally wrapped my arms around her and held me there as we jumped around and danced. Between songs she would hold my hand, fingers interlocked. She was perfectly sober. Something inside of her let her know she was safe with me. . . I don't know how to precisely explain the interaction with her and how innocent and loving it truly was. . .

At coffee shops, people are beginning to pour their heart and soul out to me. They could be a stranger, someone I haven't seen since I was twelve, or a casual friend that has kept up barriers. Some of these people have cried, or were on the verge of crying (these instances were always healthy; they found how to happy). There have been a number of times when I just felt I should say something (I write in a little book), and it has always ended up being about what the person is going through, what they needed to hear.

The point to this is that, for me and the people that have been around me lately, all of this is real magic. There is no purer form of magic than connecting deeply with another human being, helping them as much as you possibly can, and allowing them to feel your love for them.

So, yes, I do it for real. While I have been continuing to write shows feeling that I will be doing this (I may still perform them as I do love this art), I will most likely be concentrating the majority of my time and effort on this.

I know these things may sound absurd. Check my facebook (PM me), get in touch with my friends; it's all true. As Jerome said for what he is doing, all I've been using is conversational hypnosis (has taken some thought in how to do it with writing) and intuition. The only thing I would add is a real desire to listen to what others are communicating. So much so that what they are holding back can be heard. I hope that I will be able to get Jerome's Thought Veil to further all of this. All of his previous work has helped enable this.

I want to keep this silence going for another few weeks (shooting for 40 days, kudos is you know why), or even longer, but I am also excited to see what will be possible once I am speaking again.

To point out another absurdity, I recognise that ten days is not very much time. I'm fully aware that it is a drop in the bucket. And to be honest, there were a couple of slip ups. There were two times when I spoke a couple of words instantly after waking up. Also, at the show on Tuesday I yelled something. Don't remember what, didn't think about it, it just came out naturally. For me, those don't really count as slip ups. It was simply too raw, went beyond my conscious thought.

And please don't try to think I'm tooting my own horn. It's just that, for me, this is integral to express that I have been doing it for real, and what I think that means.
tiriri
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There are two or three things I believe I do for real in my mentalism shows.

Obviously NLP based cold reading is real because it is psychological, and the same goes for hypnosis. I remember reading a forum months ago where the hypnotists were saying that they were the only magicians that did not have anything to hide.

On the other hand, I use for cold reading some techniques I learnt years ago, that have to do with reading a persons aura. Obviously I am not going to argue weather it is real or not, because that wouldn't be to scientific or academic. The only thing I know is that it works! Even though, someone could argue saying that I am just reading non-verbal communication at an unconscious level or something like that.

Best regards,

Giovanni.
Jerome Finley
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In my experience HYPNOSIS is a potent tool for tapping the subconscious mind and opening up the doors to natural knowing, intuition, imagination, creativity, EMOTIONS and more - as we both know very well.

Yes, I can agree that professional mentalists 'do it for real' as far as psychology goes throughout their act. We're on the level there.

One can perform and attain a professional, ENTERTAINMENT level show or program through psychology only. Works such as George Anderson's 'Dynamite Mentalism' or my own 'Guerrilla Q&A' (or Meyer's 'Telepathy in Action' or ANY hypnosis show!)prove this. When I'm embracing my role AS a genuine psychic and nothing fake or fraudulent is present in my work I'm happy to make that claim. Why not? I can call a spade a spade. I've learned to do that Smile .

Magic, shamanism and spirituality (together with religion and hypnosis or at least 'trance') goes back tens of thousands of years. Even for all the errors between its pages I often recommend the book, 'The Death and Resurrection Show' to people interested in more information and perspectives along these lines.

I've not concerned myself with 'hits' for a very long time now. Instead I am concerned only with a sincere, genuine and genuinely helpful experience. What I offer should be unique and interesting. I intend for my program to remain powerful, moving, artful and elegant - my work is polished, well structured and completely free of any mentalism methods, trickery, deception, illusions or chicanery at the moment. Not that those things are 'wrong' by any means, because they are not! It's a personal choice and one I've made whichs adds to the discussion in threads such as this one and the topic of 'doing it for real.'

I don't present my programs and evenings as 'entertainment' because that is not my sole purpose or intention when offering them... With that in mind, it just so happens that many people DO FIND what I offer incredibly entertaining, educational/informational, helpful, genuine and memorable. Magic has its place in what I do (if you would read my post on page 1) because many of the OTHER skills, techniques, stagecraft, speaking skills, people skills, audience management and other areas translate perfectly across the board there too.

-J
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burst
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I forgot to mention the point to the part of me at the show. There were times where I felt like I was radiating. After the show, people either mentioned that they felt various intense positive emotions emitting from me to them, or that they saw a slight glow around me.

Magic, in other words. This was in part to the performer that evening, me being in tune with what it is he creates, and my current state of mind. If it will help make sense of what I am expressing, this guy uses hypnosis and a lot of audience compliance techniques. Man is just brilliant.
MDantes
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Me and what I do is "real".

The feelings I have, my Natural Knowing, as TT2 put it so well, that we have all had or been apart of.

What I think, or believe.

These people are real.

Their thoughts and feeling, the concerns, their reasonings for coming and speaking with me.

Some people do no need to spend a ****load of money to see a psychiatrist, or take medication, some people just need to talk to someone who will listen and be there.

To care and mean it.

So, yes, that is all "real".

Often though, "entertainment" just happens.

Clients usually come and receive a reading and have a great time.

That is "real".

Whatever kind of definition of "real" makes you comfortable it up to you.

However you put it.

Whatever emotional attachment you choose to put to it.

Most of us have nothing to prove to anyone, we work, help when it is needed and do it like we do it.

Answer questions and give opinions when asked.

(grins) sometimes when not.

Wether you agree or disagree with our opinions or that there are people like us that come and communicate on a "magic forum".

...

(nods) It is real.

For real.

MD
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JohnWells
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Dave, I'm with you 100%. I derive more satisfaction from "doing it for real" (private reading) than I ever did as a performer. While I certainly use various psychological techniques to make the reading process more effective, the deepest results I can take no credit for. That I can sometimes see what people are seeing in their own mind, I can take no credit for. All is grace.
KBLV
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Here ya go...this is a post I made at the Bizarre Magic board. The date/time-stamp on the post has not been altered, and this post was up before Sarah Palin's name was even MENTIONED as a possibility. Was it "real"? No. Was the following post faked? No. Was it a wild-assed guess? Not at all.

The Oracle Speaks
by KevinBurke on Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:07 pm

I predict John McCain will choose the Governor of Alaska as his running mate. So mote it be!~KB
kambiz
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I feel this thread is bordering heavily on the "magic" behind the spiritual connection of 2 individuals (the performaer and participant) and to what degree this connection can be harnessed to allow for miracles to occur.

Dave, I hate to tell you this, but if you trully, trully want to experience the giving involved in this kind of magic, then the Captain Morgans cannot be part of the equation; true spiritual connectivity requires clarity of mind also Smile

I like the way your heading with this, right up my alley, but the more connection develops, the less "performance" there is, true spiritual connection is not a stage act Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
Matthew Townsend
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Whilst I don't believe in psychic ability I do thing there are some things that we have yet to understand. But when we do understand them I believe (only an opinion btw!) that they will be due to natural phenomena.

I do however think that people can have advanced intuition that comes with years of practice, Jerome being one of them.

Is this doing it for real? I think so but I don't think it is "psychic" so to speak.

Maybe I'm wrong, I would love to be to be honest.

M
Nathan Pain
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We ALL see into the future & if you deny that, you are just deluded...I shouldn't need to explain myself...

Nathan
...
David Numen
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It's been a long time since I took part in one of these discussions and not much seems to have changed since the last one...all I can say is that as far as I am concerned I believe in what I personally have experienced and whilst some of that may be a little too out there for some of the septics, at least my own performances, my own beliefs and my own decisions on disclaimers are based on yown research and not blindly based on the beliefs of others (something both sides of the fence are guilty of but the septic side moe so it seems).
Slim King
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Quote:
On 2009-10-09 09:46, David Numen wrote:
It's been a long time since I took part in one of these discussions and not much seems to have changed since the last one...all I can say is that as far as I am concerned I believe in what I personally have experienced and whilst some of that may be a little too out there for some of the septics, at least my own performances, my own beliefs and my own decisions on disclaimers are based on yown research and not blindly based on the beliefs of others (something both sides of the fence are guilty of but the septic side moe so it seems).


I totally see your point!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
robwar0100
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Quote:
On 2009-10-09 09:46, David Numen wrote:
... but the septic side ...

OK, who is on the septic side? If it's my side, then that is a bunch of crap.

Bobby

Excuse me, Pyschic Samurai, I said I was leaving. I am doing so now.
"My definition of chance is my hands on the wheel," Greg Long.
JohnWells
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Setting aside the particular thing we are discussing and turning to the more general, there are a few observations I would make:

Skepticism (over and against what the late Marcello Truzzi called pseudo skepticism) is, at heart a philosophical methodology rather than a philosophy per se. The epoche, a disciplined doubt-witholding assent as a means of finding truth, was intended to lead, if not to intuitive adequacy about the nature of things, at least to apodictic certainty of how things must be on the basis of reason, the rigorous development of the simple notion of non-contradiction-that a thing cannot be and not be at the same time in the same respect.
Reason, understood this way, is not an artificial framework we impose on reality, but a cogent, consistent development of the basic assumption that we can perceive (the combined actions of sensing and minding, minding being those processes expressed in articulate speech)the world as it really is, and that it is a useful assumption to believe that we can perceive the world as it really is, to a point.
Scientific (rather Scientistic) (pseudo)Skeptic-ism is simply a holdover of the English Empiricism of the 18th century. It ignores, or perhaps doesn't understand, Descartes, Kant, Husserl, among others, who have shown that pure Empiricism is inherently flawed. To blithely assert that all mentalists are tricksters because no paranormal occurences are possible is, in many cases, a vast overconfidence in the purely material view of the universe, and, more to the point, not a sign of a thinking mind, but of one settled in an opinion.
While the doxic modalities of opinions are part of human thinking, the possibility of acheiving genuine knowledge about the states of things is only present to minds still engaging in inquiry. I posit that the nay-sayers on this board, far from being free thinkers, have in fact stopped thinking about these things, and thus, have no place in an active discussion intended to expand the confines of what we know.
Slim King
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Had to put on my thinking cap for that one ...BUT IT WAS WORTH IT Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
kambiz
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Our teacher at school used to use incredibly long, difficult-to-understand words which used to frustrate the living daylights out of us!

One day we approached him and begged him to use simpler language so we could understand him better. His response was, smilingly, "You come up with me!"

Nice post JohnWells, although I think that I need to "come up to you" in some parts of your post in order to understand it better! Smile

Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
JohnWells
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Though I would note that only three of the words in the post should have been unfamiliar to the average reader, epoche-which I define in the post, apodictic-a technical term used because it would be unfamiliar and, incidently, support my assertion, that pseudo-skeptics while making what are, essentially, philosophical claims (one can't know empirically or intuitively-in the proper sense-whether a claim about something inherently unobserveable is true rendering any assertions about such things philosophical statements rather than statements of fact), are, typically, not very good philosophers, and doxic modalities, a term deriving from the discipline of phenomenology indicationg the cogency and consistency of one's opinions.
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