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Steve_Mollett
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Eh, so I've made
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I've never done precognitive or distance viewing experiments 'real' during a performance.
Privately, on the other hand, I have had the odd 'premonition' or dream that has later hit on an event either occurring at the time in another locale or later in time. What it means I leave open to conjecture. My parents, siblings and recent ancestors have had similar experiences. I did notice that the frequency of these phenomena increased when I was practicing self-hypnosis or meditation.
My wife gets occasional flashes that turn out to be startlingly accurate.
Is it psychic? A glitch in time-space relationships?
I don't pretend to know, though I find it interesting.
She also 'senses' that I am a channeler. I'll refrain from elaborating as to why.

I know we're often on opposite sides of the fence, Slim, but the fence is actually a razor-thin one; while our conclusions might differ here and there, we both enjoy the speculative journey.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
bobser
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For what it's worth they say that psychics can only look into the past whilst mediums can also see the futuere. Mind you, it's normally mediums that say that. From the field of psychology however their argument to this day is still that it's all coincidence and that the human ego desperately wants to feel it is more than it is, suspecting greatness lies within itself, totally aware of it's delusion and the fact that it is mereley a lumbering robot.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dick Christian
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Northern Virginia (Metro DC)
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Why would anyone who could do it "for real" be wasting their time on a web forum for magicians who, by definition, fake it?
Dick Christian
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2009-11-16 04:05, bobser wrote:
For what it's worth they say that psychics can only look into the past whilst mediums can also see the futuere. Mind you, it's normally mediums that say that. From the field of psychology however their argument to this day is still that it's all coincidence and that the human ego desperately wants to feel it is more than it is, suspecting greatness lies within itself, totally aware of it's delusion and the fact that it is mereley a lumbering robot.


An argument is just an argument though it doesn't make anything conclusive. And in my case whenever I have had these coincedences it has never fostered any notion of greatness. It has only had me wonder if we can sense things sometimes. I know everybody has them. But wasn't Silva weho stated the more you focus in on these things the more coincedences you have?
Steve_Mollett
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Eh, so I've made
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Quote:
On 2009-11-16 07:51, Dick Christian wrote:
Why would anyone who could do it "for real" be wasting their time on a web forum for magicians who, by definition, fake it?


Why would someone who can really play baseball play a baseball video game?

Axel Hellstrohm practiced muscle reading as an entertainer, but maintained that, after years of doing this, he began to get flashes of actual telepathy.
Did he? We don't know.

What we DO know is that many practitioners of illusion are also interested in magick or paranormal phenomena. Perhaps some have 'talents' others don't, and occasionally test them in what is otherwise a program of illusion.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
funsway
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old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Quote:
On 2009-11-16 07:51, Dick Christian wrote:
Why would anyone who could do it "for real" be wasting their time on a web forum for magicians who, by definition, fake it?


To learn. Being able to do anything better than most means that you can help people. But to help people you have to understand where they are coming from. If a person comes to you with a problem you may have the answer from education, experience, intuition, psychic adeptness -- whatever. The key is how to get them to accept the solution and follow the steps necessary for success. That requires trust, and if another trusts you because you are a fake medium, seer, or performing mentalist -- so be it. Sad, perhaps, but a measure of the world we live in. We are all "more able" in some way than most. If you want to help people you 'hang out' where the need is. If you wanted to knowif your ability was 'real' -- where else to evaluate that ability than in comparison with those who fake it?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
funsway
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old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Quote:
On 2009-11-16 04:05, bobser wrote:
For what it's worth they say that psychics can only look into the past whilst mediums can also see the futuere.


there is another, more ancient view, that any person's past holds a key to their future chnaes of getting what they wish out of life -- that prejudice, values and decsion making bias will limit your future options. Therefore, an effective 'seer' can predict your future by exploring your past, helping resolve discordance/guilt/misinformation, etc. and allow/assist you in the discovery of a future course you can commit to. Then it comes true! The key is to not "predict" anything, but to assist another to restrict their goals to thing they can/will actually do. A competent Seer can be 100% successful in apparently predicting the future by only dealing with people of integrity capable of following through on a life plan. Find what they want and eliminate the self-doubt issues standing in the way. Nothing magic or psychic about the process though.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
bobser
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Mindpunisher said: 'An argument is just an argument though it doesn't make anything conclusive'.
That might be true of a bad argument, which to be fair you do a lot of. But a good argument can often come to conclusion.

Now then 'funsway'. When you say: 'The key is to not "predict" anything, but to assist another to restrict their goals to thing they can/will actually do' I find my toes curling. That's what all the fake mediums and psychics do when they CAN'T PREDICT ANYTHING!
And when you say: 'A competent Seer can be 100% successful in apparently predicting the future by only dealing with people of integrity capable of following through on a life plan' my toes start curling again! It's kinda like God will heal you if you're good. And if you don't get healed then you're not good or you just don't REALLY believe enough in God ( the favourite of all Christian teachers & churches). It's everything I dislike about the pseudo seer.
Sorry, bet you're actually a nice guy.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Jerome Finley
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SLC
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In his defense, boser (and I'm sure funsway can speak for himself), he DID say "nothing psychic or magic about the process though."

I think where he's going with this might be along the lines of, 'The best way to predict the future is to invent it/create it' and it's a simple matter to 'see' when someone will follow through with a plan of action to attain their goals. It's not a prediction per se, but the ONLY result possible and probable when someone is committed to change. Intentional, committed, deliberate action and hard work will produce results any way we look at it.

I could be mistaken...

-J
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Solo.kuryakin
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If all the tricky stuff won't work, I sometimes use the real methods (there are other ways to go as well, but sometimes I want a direct hit). E.g. reading a word someone is barely thinking of. If a peek etc. fails and I really want a hit I use real (in a good sense they a real - but I won't discuss this here) methods. They are published, they are studied, they have their explanations. And even more: they often hit quite well.
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2009-11-16 10:47, bobser wrote:
Mindpunisher said: 'An argument is just an argument though it doesn't make anything conclusive'.
That might be true of a bad argument, which to be fair you do a lot of. But a good argument can often come to conclusion.




Im not surprised you find my arguments to be bad since they consistently expose you as being the **** that you are. They are not really arguments since that presupposes an opposition. Something you are incapable of.

A good argument doesn't come to a conclusion it comes to an agreement. However you need to understand the concepts being discussed in the first place for that to happen and this where you often struggle.
funsway
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old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Thanks TT2 for seeing how simple it is. Whether it is a financial analyst using a spreadsheet, a psychologist with a yellow pad, a consultant with clipboard or a seer with a bunch of casting stones, the process is exactly the same (if ethical). You get some trial goals, check the history to find out the obsticles, remove the barriers, instill confidence and set new workable goals. The key to future success can always be found in past mistakes or misperceptions. The ideal situation is allowing the 'seeker' to "discover" the solution for themsleves. SInce they "own" the solution they will follow through. That hardly resembles what fake psychic do, and I have no idea where religeous prejudice crept in

Bobster. How you can have such heated feelings over any short statement on the Internet is beyond me -- every intelligent person knowing it is fraut with misunderstanding. If you ever bother to read one of my books you will realize that they are written to protect people from false and pseudo psychics, priests, lawyers, psychologist, marketers and politicians. If I charged for any Soothing I do I could be harmed by your weird accusations which are clearly meant to harm (check the legal defintion). However, I never charge for any personal counselling or divination process I engage in, even though a good "Sounding Process" takes about eleven hours. Not only am I nice, but I am extremely effective as a Seer when I chose to, which is rarely -- because it is so diffuclt to find anyone willing to do the work to make their life better. Instead, everyone what to take credit for what works, and know whom to blame if it doesn't -- and you seem a fine example of that. If you don't understand something -- try asking questions. For you I will try and simplify --

Anyone can increase the propensity for having a greater say over their fulture by removing all discordance between their past perceptions and working values. The future is very predictable -- if you keep on doing what doesn't work you will get the same poor results. If you change the way you think about a problem, eliminate the false perceptions about yourself, create goals that are congruent with what you are willing to do, and get some motivation, you can get the future you desire. All a good Seer (in any form) does is guide you through the steps. If you make a prediction for yourself, you can make it happen. Pseudo Seers attempt to short-cut the process or inject their ego into it. There are plenty of them out there -- go get 'em. A true Seer doesn't make predictions because he don't have to -- the Seeker claims his own future.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Slim King
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Eternal Order
Orlando
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Quote:
On 2009-11-16 09:06, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-11-16 07:51, Dick Christian wrote:
Why would anyone who could do it "for real" be wasting their time on a web forum for magicians who, by definition, fake it?


Why would someone who can really play baseball play a baseball video game?

Axel Hellstrohm practiced muscle reading as an entertainer, but maintained that, after years of doing this, he began to get flashes of actual telepathy.
Did he? We don't know.

What we DO know is that many practitioners of illusion are also interested in magick or paranormal phenomena. Perhaps some have 'talents' others don't, and occasionally test them in what is otherwise a program of illusion.


Great Post !!!!!
Almost all of those that master MR (Not that many) claim to get real experiences with telepathy.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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