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Terry Holley Inner circle 1805 Posts |
With the FCM Convention just about a month away, I thought I'd open up this "Pandora's Box"!
Back around 1984 or 1985, when the FCM still met at Winona Lake, Indiana, I had an interesting discussion with a well-known name in magic who was attending for the first time as a guest. He did not do any performing, as he is not a gospel magician, and I am not even sure about him ever making any profession of faith as many of us would talk about in our gospel presentations. Our discussion took place one afternoon after he had the opportunity to view at least one of the evening shows that included various performers. As we were talking about the week in general, he stated that he was impressd by the "family-feel" at the FCM Conference. But he then asked me a question that I have never forgotten. His question went something like this. "If the message that the gospel magicians give is so important and if they believe it has eternal significance, why do so many wrap it in such a poor package?" Of course he was talking about the quality of the performance. It hit me like a ton of bricks and it caused me to do some deep soul-searching regarding the quality of my presentation. What do you think about his assessment? Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
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Steven Steele Chief of Staff 1868 Posts |
Terry,
I would have to agree. Much of what I have seen looks like it was produced in the 50's (if you're lucky). Little has been updated and the 'object lessons' are a stretch with weakly constructed storylines. I have stayed away from gospel presentations for years for those very reasons. I will tell you however, that about a month ago, I attended the Christian Entertainers Association conference in Riverside, CA. The CEA had its roots as a west coast FCM conference started years ago, but enough of that. I saw several performers perform and had a chance to talk to them. I'm glad to report that gospel magic has grown a lot while I stayed away. Duane Laflin and Steve Taylor both were instrumental in causing me to rethink my position. Their material is first rate and more importantly 'up to date'. As a direct result of my experience I am presently developing a gospel act that will be performed twice in the next month. I'm sad that for all these years I stayed away and just let things go. It took these two visionaries to change things around. I'm sure there are others, but these are the two gentlemen that had the most impact on me. Steven
Coram Deo
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James Peters Veteran user Romford, UK 385 Posts |
I think the biggest problem I've seen with Gospel Magic etc. in general is the attitude that people have that it is "just another evangelistic tool".
People have often done Gospel Magic without actually being a magician at all. The justification has often been, "Well, the Lord wants me how I am, and will use me no matter how good or bad I am." In my opinion, people should not use tools for which they are not trained to use. I would not dream of doing a Gospel Magic presentation (although I would happily do a magic show). If I was to "sell" (can't think of another word) Jesus to my audience, I want them to go away knowing that I am serious about it. And let's face it, a naff performance undermines the message, and makes it seem like you don't actually take it seriously. Anyhow ... that's my 2 cents worth! James. |
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BroDavid Inner circle America’s North Coast, Ohio 3176 Posts |
There is great truth here.
And it ranges from the quality (or rather the lack of it) of the performance to the way we dress and the overall appearance of many of us. It is far too easy an exit, to say that God can use "anything" for His Glory. And so we take a trick, and start trying to draw people to Christ with a lame or unpracticed performance. Certainly God CAN use anything. As God is ABLE! But why would we offer less than our best as a gift to the King? Duane Laflin is a great example of someone who always gives his best. It doesn't matter if Duane is doing a lecture or a full Stage Show, he looks and performs at his best. And as has been already mentioned, Steve Taylor is also in that class. Many others too, like Sammy Smith and others whose faces come to mind, but names do not, are great individuals to emulate. It isn't about being perfect. We will have to wait until that blink of a moment for that. But It is about giving God your best. I see some people perform, and really wonder if they care. Some seem like they are just going through the motions. It almost seems like they don't believe it very important. But their acts are between them and God. So even if I think they need to search elsewhere for their gifts, the bottom line is that they are the ones who are accountable. All we can do, is tell them, in Love what issues we see. And we all also need to get ourselves in front of the mirror and look with an honest eye, to see what we see in ourselves. BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
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James Peters Veteran user Romford, UK 385 Posts |
When I started an evangelistic rock-n-roll band about 10 years ago, a friend gave me some great advice.
"Don't find out if you're good by playing in church, or by doing evangelistic outreaches. Book up a pub as a visiting band, and just play. If you get invited back, you're good. If not, go away and practice, then try again. Once you're good, start using it as a vehicle to spread the Gospel." I think the same applies to magic! James. PS. The band really sucked. We played in a Pub once and gave it up! |
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Kevin Ridgeway V.I.P. Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ 1832 Posts |
I agree with all that has been said thus far. From day one when Krsiten and myself started performing, we decided if we couldn't perform as some others that we look up to, then we wouldn't do it at all.
One problem I see, is that Gospel magicians tend to give a message with every trick they do. Now come on, which one is the audience going to remember after being bombarded with 6 different messages. Give one message and hit home with it. My second problem is how some people refer to what we (Living Illusions) do as Gospel Magic. Now this is just semantics, but just think about it for a second. OK, GOSPEL.... what does that make you think of? ...Sandy Patty, The Gaithers, your parents hymns, etc. Those performers are great and we are thankful for what they do. But that is not how we would describe ourselves or even some other "gospel" magicians that we know. Our show is high energy with music like P.O.D. some non Christian music that our audience knows, some heavy techno and dance music, etc. Then we present our show in a modern, edgy, industrial way that is entertaining, builds rapport, and keeps the audience's attention. So maybe the term Christian magician or entertainer is better suited, but not Gospel. Or even better, forget titles and let our message and our walk speak for us. Like Steven Steele said, that the magic is from the 1950's ...well so is the presentation, music, clothing. We need to remember that we are competing for our audiences attention with MTV, the current hot band, reality TV shows, etc. Kids these days know good production when they see it, they also know when someone has thrown a bunch of junk together, wore a baby blue leisure suit and lighted their show with a shop light. Now before I get blasted in here for coming down on someones good intentions, all I am trying to say is that we need to do the very best job we can, not just in the trick itself, but in presentation, grooming, clothes, ....and do I dare say style. I am thankful for those that have gone before us and made it, so those of today are more accepted in doing Christian Magic, but we need to leave their style of presentation and old school habits with them and move into the 21st century for the Glory of God. Kevin Living Illusions
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc Kevin Ridgeway & Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini The World's Premier Female Escape Artist www.LadyHoudini.com www.livingillusions.com |
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BroDavid Inner circle America’s North Coast, Ohio 3176 Posts |
Well said Kevin.
Thanks for the encouragement. I had almost given up making my distinction between a "Gospel Magician", and a Christian who does entertaining magic, that puts him in a position to make a Gospel point! Every effect does not need a verse, and a message. We have a local Christian Radio station that has a guy who, after every song, gives you a couple of minutes on the scripture that was referenced, or applies. And the joke is "a sermon with every song.." We don't need a sermon with every effect. In fact it will drive away more than it draws. And it is confusing. But confusion is not the message of the Gospel. And it is a rare show that can tie all of the effects together into a single theme that culminates in the delivery of that one well constructed irrefutable true message of the Gospel. I have no problem entertaining with a variety of effects that are just that; entertainment. And then delivering a message that will elicit action of some kind on the spectator's part. Sometimes they just think about it. And sometimes they ask questions to learn more. And sometimes they just walk away. And that is OK too. God made it clear to me a long time ago. My job is to plant. No more, no less. But it is His job to provide the increase. And if I have been faithful, I know He is faithful. And as you said, we certainly can be thankful for those that have gone before us. Men like Stan Adair, and Charles Cagle, (Since we are talking FCM here) and others too numerous to mention kept the fire burning so that we could take our light from that fire in performing and bringing Glory to God! BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
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AlexWong Veteran user 371 Posts |
I was reading the first post and was really thinking. I prayed to God for awhile, and I believe I have something from Him.
The purpose of Ministry is to spread the word of God and the Good News. To plunder hell and populate heaven! Amen? One of the Devil's greatest lies is not that there is no God, or there is no Devil. But rather, that there is no rush. If our purpose is to spread His word, not just entertain, God of course deserves our best and nothing less. But that doesn't mean we wait and wait until we become extremely good. Many people can be effective tools for God as long as they make themselves available. If we wait too long, we may lose many opportunities which have come our way. Ultimately... move as the Spirit leads. Ok... done with ranting. |
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DonB! Regular user Minnesota 170 Posts |
I also believe that there are good Gospel magicians, and bad ones. But is it any different in the secular magician realm? Not really.
As has been stated, it is our duty to give our absolute best in our programs. If we can do that by sharing a Gospel magic routine, great. If we choose to do that by giving a great show and letting our testimony speak for itself, great. Even if we choose to be Christians, and simply exist in the world of magic, great. Like magicians in the secular market, we should always give our absolute best. The sad part, some people don't, and it's really too bad for the rest of us, secular or Christian. DonB! |
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James Peters Veteran user Romford, UK 385 Posts |
Don & Alex,
I don't think it's a case of waiting and waiting until you're really good. It's more a case of what you shouldn't be. If you put on a really poor performance, you put people off before you have even started! It's true that you don't have to be a pro, but there does need to be some kind of competence with the tools you are using. In church, I have seen magic, drama, music, mime etc performed to such a poor standard that people have cringed and walked away (myself included). The people performing this stuff would invariably argue that "it does some good, and God uses it." Turn the whole thing around; would you invite your non-Christian friends to an evangelistic healing meeting, then put someone with little/no experience/faith up front to preach and pray for poeple? And to lead people to Christ? I don't think so - you'd get someone who has an annointing in the area of healing. Why should it be any different for Magic?? James. |
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Al Kazam the Magic Man Inner circle Living in Perth Western Australia 1042 Posts |
I have to agree with the general feeling here of us "Abiding in the Calling Wherein we are called". I know after serving the Lord fulltime for over 28 years that there are some things I know I've got an annointing for and other aspects of His work that is best left to others who He has given the gifts and talents to.
When I first felt led to learn magic as a way to reach people it was after seeing an Andre Kole show here in Taiwan. His show is fantastic, but he's not preaching and quoting the Bible all the time. A lot of his show was just amazing and entertaining magic. His testimony and call for salvation using the 3 ball illusion at the end of the show was superb, and did result in many in the audience receiving the Lord that day. I often have to perform basically as a Christian who does magic, and mostly not as a Gospel Magic performer. Mostly it depends of who is asking me to perform. I don't do a whole lot in churches where I live due to the language difficulty, where it's Mandarin Chinese and another very difficult language to speak. I do speak Mandarin quite well, but do stuggle a wee bit on the finer points of getting a clear gospel message across. One the aspects of having a high standard of dress, cleanliness, good presentation of the effects, appropriate music for the audience etc, I always feel we need to give it our best shot everytime in every aspect of our performance. As some mentioned above, I am led to feel it's better to let those who the Lord has given a clear annointing to, to use magic as way to present the gospel, rather than a shoddy presentation with an explanation of "The Lord can use anybody to do good" type of situation. For me personally that type of thinking doesn't go over too well in today's society. Anyway off the soap box for now. God Bless, JoJo
Magic guy in Perth Australia
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BroDavid Inner circle America’s North Coast, Ohio 3176 Posts |
My philosophy about ministry (which applies directly to my magic efforts) is that I need to do, what only I can do. We are all uniquely and wonderfully made. And there are those things that you do better than me, and those that I might do better than you.
But then there are other things that I CAN do, but so can others. And for some of them, it may be their primary gift. So if I am taking the easy way out, and doing what others can and should be doing, then I am flat out stealing their blessings. I have friends who are unique and excellent performers in areas that I could also do, but why should I? They are doing it perfectly well and receiving the blessing of their efforts. And I doubt that I really could do it any better anyway. So I seek to perform within my unique gifts. I think people who are doing the same magic as everyone else, just because they can, are doing themselves and God a dis-service. They aren't using their unique gifts. They are just doing something they find easy for them, and that everyone else is doing. SO whose blessing are they taking? What is your gift? Perform using that gift, and the Blessing is rightfully yours. Perform outside of your primary gifted area and you are in someones else's area, and if you then receive a blessing, who does it really belong to? This philosophy was given to me by God when I was praying about a ministry situation that confused me. I did something that was fairly easy for me, and because it was easy, I went ahead. And someone else ended up getting left out, because there was nothing left for him to do, but he could have as easily done what I did. I felt terribly uneasy, and asked God why I felt so bad when I did a good job. That is when He laid it on my heart to Do only what He has uniquely equipped me to do. And to quit stealing blessings from others. WHAM! It isn't that some of us are better than others, but that we are all just different. And there are different jobs to be done. Do what only you can do. BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
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RevJohn Inner circle Oregon City Oregon, Oregon 2473 Posts |
I don't have much new to add to this conversation, as so much has been covered by all.
I did want to say a word of thanks to Terry for bringing up the topic. I attended my first FCM conference in Portland this last year and out of all the performances, two stood out as top notch. Steve Taylor and Barry Mitchell. Granted Barry's style is different than mine, but it made it all that much more fun to watch. But Steve and Barry's Routining were so good. It was a show rather than, as Barry put it in a lecture, "A Magician's Garage Sale." (meaning that a lot of times Magicians get up and show 20 of the latest things they have bought and will end up in a garage sale). Glad to see that this conversation is happening. John |
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Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1850 Posts |
I'd like to share some thoughts along the same line and I hope I don't offend anyone with my opinions and I have been very hesitant to say anything, but here goes. I have seen several gospel magicians, clowns, balloon artist, etc. perform at regional conventions and their performances have been less than adequate. Honestly, I was sometime embarrassed for the performer, because it was so bad. I was at a FCM convention with my members of my puppet team and parents and was watching a pretty well known gospel magician / clown. Parents of one of my puppet kids came to me after the show and started to make very well founded statements about the performer (both are theater majors and former members of Second City Comedy Group). They talked about lack of character development, blocking, and no central theme, basically the performer was a guy in clown makeup doing magic tricks. I had to agree.
I have noticed at FCM conventions are the same folks year end and out, taking the same lectures on more and more magic tricks, buying the latest and greatest magic effects, without any thought on how it would work into what they are doing. I am of the opinion that what ever we do for the secular audience we should be doing it at least twice as well for our gospel shows. The message should be strong, very well presented, scripture based, and above all, professional. We as gospel performers should be taking classes, reading books, and taking lectures in theater arts, presentation skills, storytelling skills, inprov, scripting, etc. We should be well practiced and rehearsed before we set foot in a gospel venue. And above all, seek guidance and influence of the Holy Sprit. We should use and follow the examples of people like Steve Varro, Toby Travis, Duane Laflin, Brock Gill, BJ Harris, and Andre Kole, just to name a few. Read and study everything about our art form you can get your hands on and please don't just buy several effects and "just let God do the rest". I believe God expects our best and He does deserve it. Please, your thoughts. David Williams |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
I think David has been about as diplomatic as is honest. We would quickly make arrangements to replace a piano player, cook, van driver, or choir director who was not ready for "prime time" on the job. Ripeness counts!
Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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GlenD Inner circle LosAngeles, Ca 1293 Posts |
I agree with the idea of offering nothing less than our best regarding gospel magic performing. The message is the immportant thing but it should not be an excuse for under prepared performance.
On the other hand as we are beginning to use this art and what talents we bring to it, we need to realize that we should always be improving. That is my thinking anyways. I mean if someone has a bad performance (and a lot of magicians do) it does'nt mean they pack it up and quit. If there are consistently bad performers out there that make no effort to improve then they have to deal with that or one day realize they have no audience. It does'nt mean the state of magic or gospel magic is in a bad way either. That is a sweeping generalization that, in my opinion, is 180 degrees wrong. Moreover, no two acts are the same and everyone has their own style and there are varying venues that are not necessarily inviting to one style only. I mean, I don't do any large stage illusions but I have a stage routine that I have been performing in local churches and missions in my area. There are no flashing lights, lasers or constant loud music. Are these effects cool and worthwhile or effective? Heck yeah, I wish maybe I had more pizzazz but at the moment I am not there. Will I get to that point? I don't know. I do know that I have improved year after year and I feel that the routine I now perform is the best I have done so far as a whole. I work full time as an engineer and magic is, well I guesss more than a hobby, but not a full time profession. Given that I am careful to give my best and put in lots of practice in order to provide a good performance and not be a minus to magic in general. But it is healthy to ask the tough questions and take stock of just how are we doing. Overall I feel that the state of gospel magic is wonderful and there are terrific performers and leaders to look to as examples and models of how to do it right. GlenD
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin
"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!) |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
GlenD,
You have a good point too. One size does not fit all. We don't want to use too wide a brush. We are always sending messages whether or not we think it's show time. It's not a part-time job. Bob |
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ClintonMagus Inner circle Southwestern Southeast 3997 Posts |
Work hard and give your clients the best show you can give them. I think it's better to perform a quality show of "non-gospel" magic and share your testimony at the end or afterwards than to struggle to squeeze everything into a gospel message and present a lower quality show. Too many folks end up diluting both the magic and the message.
Amos McCormick
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
You said it Amos. Amen!
Bob |
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Joey Evans Special user Fort Myers, FL 535 Posts |
Amos, your point is proven with many Christian Actors and musicians, Scott Stapp of Creed, Stephen Baldwin, etc.... These don't play christian music or act only in christian videos, but their testimony shines through just as powerful as the christian singers themselves.
The Visual Comedy and Magic of Joey Evans
http://www.Evansmagic.com/ The Impossible Has Never Been So Funny! |
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