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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Animal magnetism exists for sure! Last night at my mates house I couldn't stop his lab sniffing my groin under the table...
I guess when you got it you got it! And Tony when you stop and realise that your credibility as far as claiming to only make decisions by your esteemed "peer research" has been knocked out the nest by the cukoo - you might chill and get rid of that inner frustration you seem to have. Bobser NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we can't start again that would be going back to the dark ages we've moved on since then. |
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dmkraig Inner circle 1949 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-10-26 23:13, TonyB2009 wrote: I would just like to point out that the chances of hitting a gnat with a machine gun are almost nil...but it would make a mess of things nearby. |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Do you have any scientific proof Craig? Where is the peer Review Research?
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dmkraig Inner circle 1949 Posts |
Well, MP, give us your address and a machine gun, and we'll try it out at your flat.
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blondins New user 6 Posts |
Please be quiet with your discussion. We have now added a video about instant healing with the gaze
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuWD6eyD8aI . Others will follow. |
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Anthony Jacquin Inner circle UK 2220 Posts |
At last, a proper hypnotist.
Ant
Anthony Jacquin
Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis Updated for 2016 Now on Kindle and Audible! |
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blondins New user 6 Posts |
As promised, here you can see another video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCx3dpU7Pbk |
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PsiDroid Inner circle 2164 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-04-26 13:42, blondins wrote: I still fail to see any mesmerism here: nothing different from any other hypnotic procedure anyone else can do the same as you you don't need special powers [which you don't have] |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Nice eyes though
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blondins New user 6 Posts |
We never said to have special powers and in any case we have also another video that shows some strange effects and we will upload later.
We just say that there is a specific methodology and if you work well you can get in 3-4 seconds amnesia etc... even with people never hypnotized before and most of the time, or hypnotize a person even defying you just looking in his eyes. And you can even heal many diseases. With normal Ericksonian techniques you need more time (at least the time to speak). With shock hypnosis (as Gil Boyne) you don't get amnesia neither it is naturally healing. You must do also therapy . There is also different keys. For exemple, in this kind of hypnosis you DO NOT PACE. You don't mirror. As if you do so it will bring the conscious mind to have conscience of what is happening. Another difference is that in normal hypnosis you go most of the time randomly. For exemple a time you get amnesia, an other time catalepsy etc... Here you plan in advance what you get and you realize just this specific phenomenology and nothing else. |
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-04-27 22:30, PsiDroid wrote: I actually really enjoy the videos and demonstrations being posted. Whether it's "mesmerism", "hypnotism", "suggestion", "energy work/animal magnetism" (etc) doesn't matter much to me; I don't concern myself much with the labels. I find the demonstrations, results and how they've being shown here unique and interesting and I'd much rather watch what these guys are doing than the majority of "hypnotists" I see today. Causing the hands to stick, creating ideomotor movements (or what they call "robot"), freezing/petrifying and releasing people with a focused or un-focused gaze, inducing a "trance state" non-verbally (and more) are all things I demonstrate on a regular basis in my TIA sequence. Much of the material being shown in these videos reminds me A LOT of George Lyman's body of work. As a premise even I think mesmerism has a ton of value and great potential. As an energy worker, magnetist and mesmeric enthusiast I've got to say "WELL DONE" (!) to the creators of this course and their associated video demonstrations. I'd like to learn more about what you folks are doing and what you offer. I have just one question... This thread was started and we have multiple pages of posts and banter. We're asked to watch the videos, visit the site and even sign up for a FREE COURSE. Like DMK said elsewhere, I'm a sucker for "FREE" especially when it's potentially useful, unique and interesting material such as this. The "FREE" James Rolph subscription was possibly the greatest FREE VALUE I've ever seen! It's something that soon turned into a veritable gold mine of great information, alternative approaches and different perspectives. That said, I've sent multiple PM's and email messages to the owners of that site, to blondis here on the Café and to the username/accounts on Youtube to speak more about their practice of mesmerism and potentially to learn more about it from their unique perspective. In many months now I've not been met with a single response. It's very frustrating. I have specific questions (primarily what's going on with that lamp and the connection between mesmerism and phosphenism, sun drawing, iris readings, magnetism and so on) but have yet to get ahold of anyone. It's not for a lack of trying! I enjoy learning as much about hypnosis as possible and its offshoots; suggestion, NLP, instant inductions, non-verbal instruction, energy work, magnetism, suggestion, IMR, eye accessing cues to facilitate states of relaxed focused awareness, use of the hypnotic gaze and other associated areas of study, practice and personal interest very much. I really would like to learn more about this from another's perspective. I have my own understanding of what's happening here, how it works and why it's of value to those practicing hypnosis and it would be nice to explore the field in more depth from the unique vantage point of others. There's really not a WHOLE LOT of resources out there when compared to traditional hypnosis (but I'm working on it ). It appears there is a LIVE training course available once or twice a year to 10 people and an online course. Those associated with the site and mesmeric course post here and yet people with a sincere interest can never get ahold of them via this forum OR their website. What's gives? -J
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-04-30 13:48, TT2 wrote: Jerome - I agree with what you stated above. And btw I came to know the teacher of these people ... and he is the best hypnotist I have ever witnessed!
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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PsiDroid Inner circle 2164 Posts |
Yaaawnnn
:hypnodisk: |
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blondins New user 6 Posts |
I see now that somebody tried to post to me without arriving to get at me. It is very strange and may be he was caught by the spam box.
About the free course it is free and it is getresponse.com that send automatically emails. I'm here in any case. I will now contact this person personally. If somebody else had the same problem please say me it. I don't know if it is possible to post it email addresses. If this address can stay on the post write at nice@neurolinguistic.com . Regarding the other interesting posts I will answer for sure. For the moment read please this article: http://www.hypnosisarticlesdirectory.com......hod.html |
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blondins New user 6 Posts |
I will outline here the differences between between Hypnosis, Mesmerism and Magnetism and I hope what is written will help in putting more light to it. In any cases Mesmerism, are just words, and everybody is free to use them as he likes. In the school of dr. Paret we use them in the sense oulined below. (that is the same used by Mesmer and the most past important practitioners of magnetism)
1) While in verbal modern clinical hypnosis you work mainly on some concepts as suggestion, social context etc...when you speak of Mesmerism and Magnetism you work with a concept called "energy" whose expression in man is the "lifeforce". Sexual reproduction or the natural growing of man and his tending toward health are manifestation of it. This energy/lifeforce is a natural expression of the "animal part" of man (thus the name of "animal magnetism"). Lifeforce is independent and precede any rational thoughts. Man with civilization and rationality has blocked this animal part into a fixity losing therefore some of his capabilities. These two concepts: animal mind and civilized/logical mind are used in mesmerism and magnetism instead of the concept of conscious and unconscious mind (that are originally of freudian origin). Primary therfore is the awakening of the "animal energy". This is a first important terminological and conceptual difference with traditional verbal hypnosis. 2) An axpect of this fixity of man is often the continous predominance of a sense toward the others or the muscular tensions. This predominance corresponds to a state of permanent fear and make difficult to see the true reality. True reality is only perceivable through breaking this fixity and requilibration and rebalancing of the senses. At this point we can acceed to the "sensorium commune" that we could translate as "common or general sense" where the whole of our nervous system acts is in reality a "sixth sense" permitting a serie of perceptions and the access also to a subtle spiritual level. Here we see a difference with modern theories as for example NLP. The complete natural and healthy state is not reachable through the excitation of a single sense (Not through a "strategy" of different sensory channels that can only have utilitaristic use) but instead only through the access to a more general level. 3) Mesmerism work is geared toward awakening this lifeforce adding energy to the system and thus exciting the "animal mind (or animal part)" of the subject. This will "break the point" the so called "fixity" of man and act a redirection and finally rebalancing of these otherwise blocked energies. (Here there is a strong similarity with bioenergetic work). Note that lifeforce/energy it is not purely physical and his effects can happen also on a subtle plane, creating various psychic effects. For exemple it can be transmitted. This concept of awakening internal lifeforce whose physical basis is in the sexual part of man and is expressed also in vitality is the western counterpart of similar concepts of indian "kundalini" that awakened creates various effects. In any case the most important element to understand is not the transmission or the so called psychic effects, but instead the awakening of something already inside the man. The key to do it is in exciting it through various systems, mostly non verbal (the "fire"). This is a second methodological difference with current normal concept of verbal hypnosis where it is mainly spoken of depotentiating the conscious mind. Sometimes some hypnotists (as Gil Boyne) spoke of "exciting the imagination". Here we begin to have some similarities. The true goal of mesmerism in any case is exciting the inner animal mind that is a concept also physiological, and it is therefore wider than only exciting the imagination. So the inductions of some so called "primitive" populations with chants and sounds, dances and other are often more effective and similar to mesmeric techniques than the modern hyperworded text used in many types of verbal hypnosis. 4) For Mesmerism and Magnetism man is in the universe and part of it. Lifeforce is a manifestation that follows the balance of man in universe. Naturally man should be in balance and there is natural tendency toward this direction. The hillness is an imbalance inside man and also between man and universe. What we do is only act in a way that recover the natural balance in man that is also a part of an universe. Symbols and other elements are useful in this process of rebalancing. This is a third axiomatic difference with normal verbal clinical today's hypnosis that normally doesn't take in count the universal paradigm but only the personal or the social while in Mesmerism thought is fundamental. (Mesmer said: A responsive influence exists between the heavenly bodies, the earth, and animated bodies. The animal body experiences the effects of this agent, and is directly affected by its insinuation into the substance of the nerves.) Healing in any case is natural. Awakening the animal mind will automatically go in this direction and heal the person. Healing can therefore sometimes be instantaneous. In the school of Dr. Paret we currently show it in the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuWD6eyD8aI . This was Di Pisa's method. There is no suggestion involved. The only fact is that we "break the point" using only the gaze and creating a state of void of a microsecond, immediate release of tension follows, and we bring the person to a normal state so fast that tensions are no more formed. 4) Another technical difference is the parts of the mind toward which is directed the operator's action. The animal mind that Mesmerism or Animal Magnetism wants to excite could probably be modernly compared with the cerebellum, the reptilian brain in Mac Lean Paradigm. In a modern perspective the rectilian brain is responsible of the fight/flight reactions as well of the awakening of the sexual energy in a person. So the methods based on gaze, touch eccc. work on this ancestral side of the man exciting it and to putting the subject in a sort of trance. "Suggestion" is not the best term for true mesmerism as activation of sexual energy or states of tensions and defences are not suggestions, but instead complex physiological reactions. So we can understand why magnetism works always even if the person is unwilling or defying (in a video a person defying will stay stuck - this was also Donato's method). Modern verbal hypnosis is instead more geared toward neocortex fonctioning. 5) Mesmerism and Magnetism are mainly non verbal. Gaze, touch, emotions, even subliminal sexual excitation (at a subliminal level normal when the persons are of opposite sex), etc... are elements that can be used in creating this specific trance. Mesmerism work is very sinthetic and fast. We don't use ten stimulations if one is sufficient. A profound knowledge of the non verbal communication is fundamental in this direction. In the school of dr. Paret we have codified a way of using the non verbal communication toward this goal (the first codifier of it was a certain Prof. Benemeglio). Cerebellum's activation concept through non verbal communication is a concept completely absent in most modern normal clinical verbal hypnosis. Modern hypnosis is very useful, but ii is headed mostly at the cerebral cortex of man and at "untying the knots of living". As somebody in this forum spoke about public shows, to better understand these concepts, we see an excitation of the profound animal mind in some public hypnotic shows were the subjects are afraid or at least emotionated of being on stage, or to react different as the others. From the point of view of Mesmerism, these are cases in which sometimes we can see reactions of excitation that are created by the most profound mind of man. But in these cases when words are used we could distinguish when these results are obtained only through social compliance and when there is an inner excitation. This could easily being spotted using language in strange ways. For exemple, while an hypnotist of the verbal school will do very attention to his languaging, the operator of mesmeric and magnetic techniques can even use words that from the point of view of the former are ill-formed, as for exemple: "You shouldn't be able now to open your hands" and obtain equally even stronger results with in this case a person not being able to open them. He could even not word the suggestions. To achieve the strongest results words are not really necessary. They risk instead to block as they activate the conscious civilized rational mind and they hinder the possibility of most extranormal results. This is the explication why these results are recorded less often in this century. 6) Finally some elements more about the sexual part (unique to these techniques) and some historical development. To better understand historically Mesmerism it is important to know that it was born out of preceding traditions that had similar points to the tantric tradition in India but tipical of western countries some of them are still living (at least in Italy and in some french traditions). This was the ancient and secret real alchemical tradition that, concealed under the veil of strange symbols, had the goal of spiritual advancement. The excitation, sounds etc... where all elements that brought people in specific state of consciousness. Mesmer polished it and put it in a way that was more acceptable to the society of his century and instead of concentrating on spiritual growth (similar manifestations were before always conducted in a religious paradigm), he concentrated only on healing. So it is easy to understand why the french commission was contrary to Mesmerism. While they didn't denied the effect (even if attributing them to other causes) they wrote also a secret report (now easily readable on the internet) that outlined the moral risks of mesmerism. Puysegur solved the moral question putting the subjects in a trance with closed eyes, so interactions with operator were reduced and controlled. Dupotet (that was in any case a very powerful magnetist) refined it even more and created the concept of Magnetism as it is intended today. But to unleash the true power of it a complete idea of the paradigm is necessary. I hope this long post will be useful. |
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PsiDroid Inner circle 2164 Posts |
Thanks for the interesting post:
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mrkmarik Regular user New York 185 Posts |
For everybody who is interested in Mesmerismus and animal magnetism here is a treat http://www.hypnothoughts.com/forum/topic......s-school
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Thought about it. But decided I'm gonna' buy a JUJU doll instead.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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Owen Mc Ginty Special user not a stupid user, a special user. 533 Posts |
So how much does Paret charge for his training then?
:hrmph:
If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
I have an old rubber doll Bob if that's any good? Well worn in but very reliable.
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