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Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
My name is Daniel Bernier, I'm 40 years old and I like collecting fancy decks. There I said it. And yes, I actually perform with them too. No one has ever thought the cards were gimmicked. Never, not once. If they ever did, they could check the deck out for themselves.
I perform mostly Gospel Magic, but that also includes close-up magic. I've been performing magic professionally now for 5 years. I have every deck E has made, plus some other decks from other companies. It's true, they are not for everyone, but it's not just kids who buy them. E and others who make fancy decks do so because they sell. If they didn't they wouldn't waste there time. The way I look at it is they are providing a product that people want to buy. If people didn't buy them or there wasn't a big demand for them, they wouldn't make them, period. Those of you who don't use fancy decks or make fun of them and say only kids buy them only makes you look ignorant to the facts. It's alright that some people don't like them, but to make assumptions about who buys them and for what reasons is wrong. Oh, by the way, Bikes are also making their own line of fancy decks now too. I've got the first deck in a series of 10 limited editions. I guess poker players are going to be suspicious of them at the next poker night eh. I have both the black and white Arcane decks and I disagreee with Demonbrn. The quality of the cards are as good as top quality bikes or more. If you have a deck with a card cut off center send it back to E for a replacement. They will do that. I'm surprised that you had an off centered card because the quality control on the cards was top notch. No they didn't hurry to cut the cards. You might of got a rare deck which can always be returned for either a full refund or replacement. Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Phoenix decks were $3 each, whereas most E decks are approximately double that. Also, your statement reinforces what I've already said; that ad is not meant for working magicians. Next time, Ellusionist should cut their production budget by about 98% and just give us something simple and clean. The difference is in the quality and art work. I don't want to sound like I'm putting down the Phoenix deck but the art work and stock quality on the Arcane deck far exceeds the art work and quality on the Phoenix deck. Sorry, no comparison there. Also, the Phoenix deck is not supposed to be a fancy deck but a deck that is presumed to replace the bikes. They have there place in the magic community but I do believe that Christian didn't intend them to be a fancy deck. he wants the Phoenix deck to be excepted as a regular deck.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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ProgrammingAce New user 27 Posts |
I started practicing magic 15+ years ago. I worked up to the point where I was doing restaurant work and parties to put myself through college. After that, I didn't touch a deck of cards for about 5 years. When I came back to magic about a year ago, the first thing I did was buy a brick of bikes. They were junk.
These new bikes were thin, off-center and cut with a dull blade. Realizing it was a bad batch, I went to a different store and bought a double pack. Same crappy cards. A few weeks later, I bought another double pack. Crappy cards again. Either I was going crazy, or USPCC's quality control sucked. It could have been my imagination, maybe bikes always sucked and I had just lived with it. I realized I still had some sealed decks from 2003 laying around, so I cracked them open and compared the cards. The new cards are noticeably thinner and came out of the box warped. The 6 year old deck had great snap, no warping, and was actually cut right. The moral of the story, if I have to spend $4 a deck to get decent quality cards, I don't really care. The deck I performed with today is a 9 month old set of Black Tigers with hundreds of hours put on them. These cards are missing a good 10% of their ink, but still perform like the day I got them. I think they look better with some wear and tear anyway. And hey, they were free. |
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ico Regular user Australia 109 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-10-29 22:40, Demonbrn wrote: Of course they don't faro, they are for fanning |
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Corbett Inner circle Indiana 1161 Posts |
Ico, what does fanning have to do with faro-ing?
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ico Regular user Australia 109 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-10-30 09:12, Corbett wrote: nothing at all. Ellusionist made the deck targeting its use for flourishers, so it is quite normal that the cards do not behave well in non-flourish situations like faro. Am I completely off the topic? |
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Corbett Inner circle Indiana 1161 Posts |
So, in your opinion these decks are more for the manipulators and ECM'ers out there, rather than magicians?
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Bean Regular user 119 Posts |
Did I order some? Yup. I haven't gotten them yet, so I'm not qualified to speak to their quality or how they handle. But why all the angst? Some people like them, some don't, just like any other consumer product out there. Pants are pretty much pants, but how many different brands and styles are there?
Demonbrn, you had some concerns about faroing them. There's a video on the Ellusionist blog with David Mitchell. He faros a black deck several times (while admitting, if I remember correctly, that he's no great shakes at faroing). They seem to work fine. And if it were me and I got a misprinted card, I'd get in touch with Ellusionist about a replacement. Corbett, you were wanting to list all the "novelty" decks. How about all the Bicycle decks? Clear Disney Eco Fashion (shiny pink or silver) Guardians Limited Edition (how many decks are going to be in this series? 12?) Nickelodeon Pink Ribbon Prestige Pro PokerPeek Rider Backs (red or blue) Tragic Royalty And you can even get Personalized. Evidently even Bicycle sees that not everybody wants to use a set of red Rider Backs. Don't like them? Don't buy them. I've been wearing Levis for...45 years now? I wouldn't wear a pair of designer jeans if you gifted them to me, but I really don't mind if you want to wear them. ETA: the mysteriously missing comma and take out a duplicate word. |
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Demonbrn Veteran user Oakley, CA 338 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-10-30 02:51, Gospel Dan wrote: I never had much problem with E's cards prior to this (I use my ghost cards constantly, they've yet to fail me), and as sending them in for refund/replacement, the shipping would inevitably be more than what I paid for the deck (My white deck is fine, it looks good, not the same problems than with the black). I posted on another thread; these cards are resiliant, I LePaul spread them for about two hours and then did some riffles to straighten them out and they are as straight when I pulled them out. And the scrachty feel was due to the flakes left over from the cutting process (first time I've ever ran into this on USPCC cards of any kind). Don't get me wrong, I wasn't posting the post to flame on E's new product, I enjoy that there are people that aren't elitist and are willing to change things for the people whom enjoy things out of the norm. I just wanted to get some feedback that it wasn't just me, or that I was of a select few. Brandon Juhnke |
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ico Regular user Australia 109 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-10-30 09:44, Corbett wrote: more for manipulators and kids who want awsome decks, but magicians could find use for them unless their tricks depend on the deck being a run of the mill one. speaking of XCM-ers - I was at a local club show with an audience consisting of a bunch of students, and when a guy pulled out a black ghost deck, they all said "awwwww...." He proceeded to dropping half of the deck but was forgiven just for the cool cards he had. maybe we are a little unsophisticated down here... In any case I'm getting my set on Monday or Tuesday. |
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Demonbrn Veteran user Oakley, CA 338 Posts |
Imho, the shadow master looks better than the black ghost, the spade and jokers look good in it, but the rest of the cards are just... meh.
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ico Regular user Australia 109 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-10-30 20:14, Demonbrn wrote: It's difficult to tell a difference from a distance of a few meters especially when they are in a fan... the overall palette matters, the back design sort of matters, but individual pictures kind of don't... Hm, thinking of it, these decks look more and more like shiny collector toys, hehe |
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Demonbrn Veteran user Oakley, CA 338 Posts |
Lol, the backs of the shadow master are a bit more faded (like shadowy) and the pips do the same transition (from black to red, etc).
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BMF Regular user Saint Louis 132 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-10-30 02:58, Gospel Dan wrote: I believe you misunderstood the intentions of my post. The first part is to correct somebody's price comparison. Ellusionist decks are not the same in price as Phoenix decks; E's decks tend to cost about $6, as compared to the $3 for Phoenix. On a completely different point, but in reference to the same poster, I mentioned that the E ad is superfluous to our needs as workers. Also, I don't think it's proper to say that Arcane decks have higher quality artwork. They are, as you noted, for different purposes. You would do just as well to compare apples to fence posts. As a wise man once told me, "Sorry, no comparison there." |
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts |
It is funny that you can compare the quality of the Phoenix Decks to the Ellusionist - as the Phoenix Decks are not even available!!!!
The fun part also is: I am true to you all and tell you, what card stock and finish you get. The rest is marketing. Shall I tell you that US Playing Card does NOT have different kind of finishes? That they always use the same cutting machine, punching machine, embossing machine for the linen structure? That they cut down the card stock variety to only one or two different kind of paper quality? That´s it. The rest is psychology, clever marketing etc. Perhaps I just should have said that I am not using the air-cushion finish but the Phoenix blowing-in-the-wind-of-wings finish to make the card fans even easier and more regular. And one or two guys will believe that and post in a forum how good they feel compared to Bicycles etc. All this is rubbish, I am just true and tell you what you will get. And before you compare the decks to anything else... get your hands on them so that you can really have a comparison. Ellusionist Decks have the same production cost like me, even cheaper as I guess that they are so big that they produce much more decks compared to me. There are enough card COLLECTORS out there who have no problem paying 6 Dollars for a deck that will never be used or touched. That is fine, others collect stamps or moose poo. Why not?! I would just be happy if magicians would WORK with the Phoenix Deck, this is the intended purpose for them. Thanks
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4190 Posts |
Excellent said, Christian. That's simply the truth! Let me add just one thing, no better two: Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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Failed Magician Inner circle Still working on the DL even after made 2100 Posts |
I'd love to get the Phoenix, but they don't sell it here. Anyway, I still use Bicycle for one simple reason: the gaff cards. Most of the gaff cards come with Bicycle back. Unless I can do a clean sleight that requires no gimmick or gaff cards, then it's ok for me to buy or collect other decks.
For now, I cant afford spending on decks. I'd really love to collect tho such as the Arcane or Alchemist. At the moment, the most precious deck I have is the Bicycle 1800 Vintage Series. I don't use them, but it's a nice thing to have. New decks are like rares items in online game. They keep coming in for the collectors and people who like to be different than others. I mean, it would be really cool for the audience if you come to them with 4 different decks, and show them different great tricks, clean tricks that rely only on sleights. At the end of each trick they can examine the whole deck up-side down, etc. That's when the design of the deck will stay in their mind forever.
Magic comes through perception. -HS
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts |
@Failed Magician: I sell them worldwide for 5 US$ shipping cost. Flat! No more.
Also: Phoenix Gaffs are already available and the list of available gaffs and tricks will grow fast. Dealers are welcome to stock the Phoenix Decks also. So if you have a magic dealer where you would like to get them directly: let him contact me.
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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ProgrammingAce New user 27 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-11-13 05:23, Card-Shark wrote: I'm not really in any position to argue with you, you know far more about the construction of playing cards then I do but I have a few questions. I'm holding a deck of white ellusionist's Arcanes in one hand and a standard deck of bikes in the other. Both decks are brand new out of the box. When I shine a flashlight or other bright light on the arcanes, I can clearly see the reflection. On the bikes, I cannot. The Arcanes are far more reflective then a standard deck of bikes. Now from where I'm sitting, that leads me to believe the Arcane deck has a different finish then a standard bike. Is there something else I'm missing? Both cards are white, so I don't believe it to be a property of the ink. Now when I look at ellusionist's other custom decks, I can see they're clearly thicker then a standard deck of bikes. I need a different card clip to even hold the deck and the boxes are thicker to accommodate the cards. Again, from my perspective this leads me to believe that they really are using a different card stock and it's not just marketing. Now whether the ellusionist decks are better then a regular set of bikes is up to the individual, but I don't see how the difference between the custom decks and regular bikes is only marketing. |
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts |
About the finish: USPCC stated that they only have one finish formula. I don`t believe that Ellusionist will bring his own pot with them.
The card thickness can be a fact. There are two ways in influencing the card thickness. One is to use thicker (and heavier) card stock. This is something that I already did with my German playing card company. I do not know the US values, but the Bicycle card stock is 300 grams. Other available stocks have 330 grams, but I do not know if USPCC supply that as I never had the demand. The other way to influence the thickness is the pressure on the mashine that presses the linen structure into the cards after printing them. Higher pressure means slightly thinner cards. After being taken over by a huge company USPC streamlined their production, so they reduced their variety to reduce storage costs. So even if someone wants something special, he will not find it there.
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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ico Regular user Australia 109 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-11-14 00:01, Card-Shark wrote: ...and tally ho has the same finish as bycicles? |
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