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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » A warning to all you Halloween workers (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mormonyoyoman
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Quote:
On 2009-10-30 14:25, Bill Nuvo wrote:
Quote:
What is the purpose of starting this thread, other than to start some sort of debate over religion, or to spread malice?

- Donald


Is there any other reason for a thread on the Café? lol just joking Smile


I agree. There is no other reason than anti-love. LOL - Not joking.

*jeep!
--Grandpa Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
TonyB2009
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Guys, this "warning" is not as trivial as you might think.
Last year in Limerick, Irelnad, two school girls were hoping to do a magic act during a charity fundraiser. The local priest condemned them from the altar for promoting devil worship. He got a lot of ignorant people supporting him, despite the fact that the local bishop immediately distanced himself from the priests views.
Now the priest has the backing of the pope. We are right to discuss these topics. Tony.
Neale Bacon
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Like Donald, I have never had churches with Halloween issues except that a few choose to have Fall Harvest parties or call it by some similar name.

A lot of churches (mine included) see a conflict between Halloween and Christian beliefs. We don't have a problem with kids dressing up, getting candy or having fun though.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
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seadog93
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I smiled this afternoon at a library show this afternoon, while thinking about this thread, a boy in the front row was dressed as the devil. ...He was my volunteer. Smile
This evening I a bizarre magick show for a group of tweens, teens and adults. I'm pretty sure the vatican would frown on most of what took place there.

I'm glad to live in Berkeley, I think I get away with a lot that I wouldn't in other locations.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

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stijnhommes
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Quote:
On 2009-10-30 23:53, TonyB2009 wrote:
Guys, this "warning" is not as trivial as you might think.
Last year in Limerick, Irelnad, two school girls were hoping to do a magic act during a charity fundraiser. The local priest condemned them from the altar for promoting devil worship.
Maybe it's just the fact I know how the tricks work, but how can anyone possibly equate magic acts with devil worship. What we do are tricks designed to deceive your mind into thinking something happened that didn't. Just because it doesn't fit their views on good and evil doesn't mean it's devil worship... I'd love to hear the reasoning of these priests, so I can blow it out of the water.

Quote:
On 2009-10-30 17:09, Mr. Woolery wrote:
Ah, how sad. I am Catholic. One of the things I appreciate about the Roman Catholic Church (at least in Fairbanks) is that we are not all hung up on fear of Halloween and things like that. Our church has an annual Halloween party and does not use alternative names like Fall Festival. It is all about having fun in a spooky (but not evil) way and giving kids candy.

It looks like it came from one of the priests in the Vatican, which does not mean it is from the Pope, nor does it mean that this carries the weight of doctrine or discipline within the RCC.

I love Halloween because it is the one day of the year when we all, regardless of religion, race, creed, or favorite breath mint, will welcome anyone to the door and give freely in a spirit of what some would think of as proper Christian attitude.

-Patrick
Thanks Patrick. Your comment gives me hope that people can actually think for themselves and still follow their religion. You're right. It's about giving.
Gerry Walkowski
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It's been my observation that at least in my area Catholic Churches began shifting away from having HALLOWEEN events and moving more toward FALL or AUTUMN FESTIVALS back around 1990. It's funny how I can almost remember when it began to shift.

Part of it seemed to happen from the type of costumes children were wearing to school or church functions. Some youngsters were coming in with fake blood on their clothes and toy axes, and I think the Catholic Church just wanted to move away from all of that.

I'm not here to take sides one way or the other. All I'm saying I noticed the shift as far back as the very early 1990s.

If there's any good news, though, Halloween has become more popular than ever. So, there should still be plenty of other work around to keep magicians busy during October.
TrickyRicky
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Thanks for the information Tony.
We will soon have that sort of nonsense here in Toronto.
I'm Catholic, but sometimes I wonder if they don't have other more important issues to worry about.
Ricky
Mr. Woolery
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Our parish priest once told us a story about his youth. He went to a Catholic school and one year the school administration decided that kids who wore costumes had to dress as Biblical characters or saints. Lots of kids were bummed. Then one boy looking through a book of saints found the section on maryrs. Apparently it was the bloodiest Halloween that school had ever seen. And every single one of the rather macabre costumes had to be accepted because they all came from descriptions of how particular saints were killed.

Our Catholic school doesn't have a problem with kids dressing up as witches, skeletons, random ghoulish things, or even princesses. I saw several of each of those yesterday and only one angel.

I guess I really don't have anything else to add to this thread. All I can say is that there are plenty of very sensible and intelligent folks in the RCC who shake their heads about these complaints about Halloween, even if such complaints come from Rome. We don't really all toe the line together with whatever one dippy priest (or even the Pope) says. We are only obligated to take as doctrine the things that are proclaimed as such by the Pope. And historically there have been thousands of non-doctrinal pronouncements for every one that is something we are all supposed to accept.

Most of us really do think for ourselves, whether Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, Jewish, AME, or agnostic. And that's a good thing to do. Thinking is a good thing.

-Patrick
mormonyoyoman
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Friends don't let friends think and drive. At least, that's the traffic I see.

*jeep!
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rossmacrae
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Doesn't it make you think....

Move away from (the modern way of) Halloween (fairy princesses, pirates) and back toward "Fall Festival"...

...doesn't that seem like a move back toward the essence of the pagan celebration?
MikeHMagic
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YES...and about D*mn Time!!!
Mike "Gus" Harvatt
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Potty the Pirate
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Although this thread is a bit tongue-in-cheek, I'm actually very interested in the spiritual side of working magicians. Personally, I hold a firm conviction and faith in real magic, a Greater Intelligence which guides us, and the importance of spiritual awareness. I've tried various religions, but sadly discovered no group of believers who would accept my beliefs, founded solely upon my own life experiences.
Yet I do believe that many are called to perform magic as entertainment, because it is a gateway to a journey of discovery of the unknown.
Does anyone else believe that conjuring is their "calling" or "destiny"?
Potty Smile
TonyB2009
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Hi Potty. I am sorry, but I do not share your beliefs. I am an avowed and card-carrying athiest. Tony.
Payne
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I too am a card carrying non-theist and haven't a spiritual bone in my body. It is my destiny not to hold any belief in the supernatural or "real" magic of any kind.
Thus when I perform I make no bones about simply doing tricks.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Mr. Woolery
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Wow. Card carrying!

I don't know any Christians, Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, or Hindus who carry cards to signify or validate their religious views. How many atheists feel the need to carry a card? And why?

-Patrick
Brian Lehr
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Quote:
On 2009-10-31 08:04, TrickyRicky wrote:
We will soon have that sort of nonsense here in Toronto.


Actually, Toronto is already in the process of having such nonsense, but in a different way. In 2005 the Toronto District School Board published a series of policy guidelines (which were re-affirmed this year) for all the public schools.

Besides wanting to change the name of the day from "Halloween" to "Black and Orange Day", teachers are being warned to forego traditional classroom Halloween celebrations because they are disrespectful of Wiccans (so much for this being a "Christian" problem) and may cause some children to feel excluded. They also said that many recently arrived students in their schools share absolutely none of the background cultural knowledge that is necessary to view 'trick or treating,' or the commercialization of death, as 'fun'.

Another reason they gave had to do with the diets people eat. They said, "For other students, ‘food products that are marketed heavily during the Halloween period’ may conflict with dietary habits that children know from home."

Brian
Donald Dunphy
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Even though we are bordering on forbidden topics (religion), I'll chime in to represent another point of view.

I'm an evangelical Christian. Most of my shows are non-message (purely fun) shows for a variety of customers. And some of my shows are gospel-message shows for churches (when requested).

I promote my shows to a wide variety of people in a variety of markets, but I'm rejected by some for a variety of reasons. And included in those reasons, might be that some people (for example at some churches), are more conservative than I am, and have concerns about a "magic show."

This is without even getting into the topic of Halloween, which is another can of worms.

I just accept that is the way it is, and don't get worked up about someone who is more conservative than I am.

I know that I have little to no chance of persuading them to listen, or consider another point of view, if I tell them that they are wrong, or demean them in some way.

I see a lot of demeaning and mocking on this thread, of conservative points of view. I can tell you that is no way to win them to change their minds or to even listen to you.

It's human relations 101. "You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

I still get puzzled about the people who get up in arms over people who judge others, and respond by judging those people who judge. You aren't any different. You have clearly shown that you have a firm set of beliefs, too.

I am not too concerned when someone rejects me for whatever reason. I just think "NEXT", and seek out the next possible customer. Why "saw sawdust", and get worked up about something I have no control over?

Also, I don't think it's healthy to spend too much time focusing on "loss."

- Donald

P.S. I also believe that I have been given the talent to entertain, but that it also is something that can be learned and honed. I believe that in certain circumstances, I am doing what God has meant for me to do. That doesn't mean just doing a show / entertaining an audience, or having an impact with a message. Sometimes glorifying God comes though actions of working hard, being honest, providing for yourself and your family, contributing positively to society, paying taxes, being friendly, etc.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
seadog93
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Potty,
I too believe in "real" (metaphysical/occult) magick and consider myself to be a practitioner. I have been involved to an extent in several occult religions, but am not a follower. I'm not sure if I consider performing magic is a calling, but I'm not sure that it isn't. Actually I got back into magic after reading an article by Jeff McBride in a children's (teens) book on the occult.
It seems to me, with the exception of Bizarrists, most magicians are atheists (a la Randi, Houdini, etc.) or evangelists. That may not be true, but it's what I've noticed so far.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b
MrGreggy
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I personally have very little interest in religion, so my thoughts on this seem to veer away from the discussion at hand.

I was thinking that a well-placed complaint to a very loud, uptight and locally well-known religious group about a Halloween show (perhaps yours) being too scary or too evil would generate a ton of publicity and sold-out shows.

Just a thought.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2009-11-01 17:43, Mr. Woolery wrote:
Wow. Card carrying!

I don't know any Christians, Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, or Hindus who carry cards to signify or validate their religious views. How many atheists feel the need to carry a card? And why?

-Patrick


They may not carry cards but many practitioners of other faiths wear various charms and talismans that denote their affiliation with various belief systems.

I just carry a notation on my health insurance card that I am an Atheist and that in case of a catastrophic life threatening mishap or accident that I do not wish to be attended to by any sort of holy man or have any superstitious rituals performed on my behalf.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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