We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Odd Coin Moves (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Joe Mauro
View Profile
Inner circle
1133 Posts

Profile of Joe Mauro
I don't get those strange grips that look like half of an OK sign. Yes, the coin can't be seen, but it's so unnatural, no one would be fooled, would they?
~Joe
Mr. Mystoffelees
View Profile
Inner circle
I haven't changed anyone's opinion in
3622 Posts

Profile of Mr. Mystoffelees
If you met a person with a shriveled hand from a bad accident, let's say, it wouldn't take long to get used to the oddity. I think the same for the edge grip and others like it. So, it may be just the need to establish a way of holding your hands that becomes natural and allows for the sleight to not look strange...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
lithyem
View Profile
Veteran user
San Diego, CA
309 Posts

Profile of lithyem
I've seen Mr Tango use that grip while he reaches up to adjust his glasses. Brilliant cover move for JW.
JW (Jimmy Wilson) Grip is concealment you are thinking of.
Shoot Ogawa uses it well as does Eric Jones. In fact Eric does it incredibly smoothly and is a very helpful poster here on these forums. It can seem very natural if properly motivated - the problem with it most of the time is that it's used as a juggling act and more for the performers benefit than the routines.

Think about this position for a moment as a way to bring a coin close to your eyes to look at the date. In doing that it becomes completely natural and motivated. If it's simply used as an awkward hand position it sure looks suspicious.

Michael
Mike Heitkamper
View Profile
New user
31 Posts

Profile of Mike Heitkamper
Joe, I have seen the JW Concealment used by Garrett Thomas, Shoot Ogawa, Rocco, and several other performers where the move went completely unnoticed by me until the second viewing. And I have been familiar with the concealment for years. The magicians that I see use it successfully, are able to get the coin into and out of position smoothly. And the biggest key to successfully disguising the move, as Michael points out in his post, is to properly motivate the position of the hands. I am curious to know who you have seen utilizing the move. I have seen it used poorly more often than effectively.
Joe Mauro
View Profile
Inner circle
1133 Posts

Profile of Joe Mauro
I don't have a specific performer in mind, just some DVD's I've had over the years.
I've watched performances with laymen friends and without my asking, they would make comments about how their hand would look after a vanish. Never with David Roth though. Interesting.

Joshua Jay talks about this in his Methods DVD. He says the hand positions look like gang signs.
~Joe
Mb217
View Profile
Inner circle
8882 Posts

Profile of Mb217
Hello Joe, Smile

The JW Grip can look a bit odd if you hold it there or use it a bit too much. Some mentioned here use it well and you'd never know they even did it. I've watched Shoot, a brilliant magician, use it and I tend to think he goes a bit crazy with it at times, just too much and after a while yes, you can't see the coin but you got the feeling that it's there. It's that "feeling" that shouldn't be there I think.

It's a great move but like any out-in-the-open move it should be used sparingly so as not to draw too much attention to it. I see people use it over and over in like that Schizoid Vanish(?) and while it's clean looking, you just don't feel right about it. Smile The going to adjust your glasses or an off gesture to get in position is a good way to make it happen.

Also it's good to understand what a spec see's and how they comprehend the magic. They don't see like magicians tend to think they see. They are not as aware as you might think in many cases, especially when magic is brought to them. Magicians spend a lot of time worrying about what might be exposed sometimes when it's the spec's mind that is looking for discrepancies that it just doesn't process in the same way a thing is simply seen. The mind quickly connects the dots it see's...Too much of discrepancy and something is wrong. Small discrepancies are connected to the larger pattern as good enough to continue on...Sorta like pixels in a picture...If you lost a few hundred or so, the pic would look about the same to you. Smile The goal is to keep the logic linear despite the disccrepancies and this is done with things like misdirection, timing, gaffs, sleights, patter, etc. All these things smooth the icing over any divot in the cake so that it is pretty much undetectable or not large enough a problem to set off warning bells in the spec's mind. Smile The guys that understand this stuff and have the confidence behind their practice of effects/moves look pretty smooth to the human eye. Smile
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
harris
View Profile
Inner circle
Harris Deutsch
8696 Posts

Profile of harris
I do things such as making hand shadows..(with a little vent of course) of a dog in a prior routine which sets up a call back which covers the move. That works for my character. Find something that works for you.
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
pearljamjeff
View Profile
Inner circle
Ann Arbor
1245 Posts

Profile of pearljamjeff
JW can look incredibly natural. Some just seem to put too much emphasis on the display of the hand.

Watch people in real life move their hands around. You will start to notice things that look like JW, classic palm, downs palm, finger palm, etc... all on normal people who aren't palming anything. It will make you realize that you can having "normal looking" hands with almost any palm.

Nothing telegraphs a palm more than tension in the hands. To me, the biggest problem with JW is that so many magicians, being excited by the cleanliness of the display, turn it into a "pose," instead of using natural movement. Poses are, by nature, full of tension. Watch a magician display his hand when its truly clean... He won't be holding it still or in a pose.

Release the tension, and JW can be a good friend.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
cperkins
View Profile
Special user
699 Posts

Profile of cperkins
Good thoughts on the JW's use, Pearljamjeff - holding a pose with it risks suspicion. Homer's advise on the subject would seem to coincide with this notion. He uses it brilliantly in Coin Two when he holds it just long enough - a fraction of a second in his flurry for an impossible vanish to occur in his hands. Bang, bang and its over. He argues against using it as an "in your face" concealment as in a whisper vanish. And he makes a good point.

There are some who can do this well (Apollo is just amazing with it - but who can do what he does with coin manipulation?). I find many of the rest of us like me, take real risks with it if we hold the pose.

This move is badly abused by many.

cp
To see a difficult thing lightly handled gives the impression of the impossible.
(Goethe)
Curtis Kam
View Profile
V.I.P.
same as you, plus 3 and enough to make
3498 Posts

Profile of Curtis Kam
In addition to looking at others, you have to look at yourself. In particular, yourself when performing. If you're not someone who gestures frequently, or "speaks with his hands", it's going to be jarring when you suddenly pop into JW grip, no matter how many other (more visually expressive) people are doing it.
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
magicalaurie
View Profile
Inner circle
Ontario, Canada
2927 Posts

Profile of magicalaurie
Quote:
On 2009-11-14 04:17, pearljamjeff wrote:
JW can look incredibly natural. Some just seem to put too much emphasis on the display of the hand.

Watch people in real life move their hands around. You will start to notice things that look like JW, classic palm, downs palm, finger palm, etc... all on normal people who aren't palming anything...


The first time I learned of the JW grip (Mike Gallo), I was blown away by its genius- as an extremely natural looking sleight- a natural looking hand position I would previously never have considered could conceal a coin. When properly used, I would presume most laypeople wouldn't conceive that moment is one they should suspect.
Kevin Gardner
View Profile
Regular user
Richboro, PA
177 Posts

Profile of Kevin Gardner
The JW grip very useful because it is both a method of holding out and an aquipment. Try to relax your fingers as much as possible when in the JW grip.
streetcoin
View Profile
Regular user
117 Posts

Profile of streetcoin
I use him a lot when doing changes.
you hold a copper coin in jw grip and show them a silver coin.
your hand rubs over the coin and it changes.
nobody is suspicous
jake.o
View Profile
Regular user
111 Posts

Profile of jake.o
If you are holding another coin at the finger tips the hand looks as natural as it can while still holding a coin.
phread
View Profile
Elite user
md
486 Posts

Profile of phread
Jw is not natural...the glasses thing makes sense...in most cases it is an abomination...
Deckless Wonder
supra97
View Profile
New user
nj
37 Posts

Profile of supra97
I think the main use for it is to quickly adjust your glasses or scratch your head to show that hand empty, then you can lower your hand and change grip
supra
pearljamjeff
View Profile
Inner circle
Ann Arbor
1245 Posts

Profile of pearljamjeff
It is exactly how I naturally hold my hands if I hold up a coin to look at closely or to blow on it.

I don't think you can make sweeping generalizations about what is natural or not across the board when everyone has different mannerisms.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
feher
View Profile
Inner circle
Michigan
1421 Posts

Profile of feher
JW can look weird if not structured right in a routine,Place it right, I feel its one of the most deceptive concealment.
I have to say I don't care where you put a Himber Vanish, it just looks weird to me. IMHO
Tim
Mean people SUCK!!!!!!!
Lawrence O
View Profile
Inner circle
Greenwich (CT)
6799 Posts

Profile of Lawrence O
Tim Feher is using extremely convincingly the JW grip during his purse frame routine: a masterpiece.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Jim Pace
View Profile
V.I.P.
Portland Oregon
556 Posts

Profile of Jim Pace
Mr. Kam wrote:
In addition to looking at others, you have to look at yourself. In particular, yourself when performing. If you're not someone who gestures frequently, or "speaks with his hands", it's going to be jarring when you suddenly pop into JW grip, no matter how many other (more visually expressive) people are doing it.

Oh my,my... well said.
"The drum that beats the loudest is always the most hollow."
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Odd Coin Moves (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.13 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL