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donrodrigo Special user U.S.A. and Europe 635 Posts |
I have made a colapsible cage square in design-nice size. Doves to rabbit-puppy dog. It holds 4 dove comfortably in a row for and after production. As the lid is taken away upward-wisk the four sides collapse downward with the secret panell falling down and thus producing the large livestock in a flash. The front of this cage has metal bars so as to see through as the doves are shown. It is totally collapsable as are the four sides. The final draw back is: Since this is made to pack flat for transpo can anyone PLEASE give me any idea as to were to find spring hinges that can be taken apart and remounted for such purpose. Thanks Don.
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Hi Don, The only spring hinges I know of the big heavy duty ones at the hardware store. Smaller ones are ususally made by hand by magic manufacturers for each project.
Not seeing your prop, it is hard to imagine from your discription. What the Osborne plans suggest is using 'Bullet Catches' to pop out the sides, making them fall. |
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donrodrigo Special user U.S.A. and Europe 635 Posts |
You're right WM nee to take a pic,but they need to be small " or 1 1/2 " at the most. But will post pic asap. Regards Don.
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tabman Inner circle USA 5946 Posts |
There was a discussion about this several years ago either here or on PMZZ and I think that Michael Baker offered a good solution.
Good luck. -=tabman
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...
http://Sefalaljia.com |
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
Making your own spring hinges is not hard but I do not understand how you are going to keep the tension on them when you take it apart. Usually, the hinge pin is placed through the spring. If you remove the pin to pack it, you will send the spring flying.
The Jack Hughes Vol 1 gives a good explaination how to make your own springs. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Here's the tutorial that I made to show how I make my own spring hinges.
http://themagiccompany.com/sprg_hng.html I doubt these, which operate like mousetrap springs, would do the best job. You want the walls to fall open, not fly open. What Richard said is true about taking them apart. Even if you managed to find all the pieces, it would take way too long to reassemble everything at your next show. For the application asked about, a different type of spring would do better. The Osborne idea with the bullet catches it pretty sound. They basically operate like a compression spring with force against the walls of the box. Pop the lid and they all push the walls open. It's just enough of a nudge to insure that the walls won't remain standing upright. Come to think of it, a small rubber band hooked over two tiny nails (one near the bottom of the wall, the other on the box bottom), would help pull the walls open (one for each wall).
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Michael, what type of wire do you use to make the spring? What gauge is best for smaller hinges?
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
For the spring I use on my Card Stars, I use .025 music wire. Most good hobby shops will carry it in bundles of 3 foot lengths.
You can probably find it on spools, like the various guages I used when I made feather flowers, but these shorter lengths are easy to manage, and not at all expensive. I usually make 10 coils, so you can go up or down on the wire diamter, depending on the size of the hinge, and the strength you need. I should mention that I did try to make, by request, a larger spring hinge for a prop similar to a Forgetful Freddy. It was going to require a very strong spring, and therefore a larger hinge. The first one I made did not have the force to throw such a heavy object. It was at the end of a longer arm, which increased the leverage... not in favor of the spring. In order to make one strong enough, I felt it should be a steel hinge with welded joints, and not brass with soldered joints. Since I was afraid the brass hinge and arm may not hold up to the extreme force of the stronger spring, and because I did not have the capabilities to weld the parts needed, I turned down the job. In case any of that matters...
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
The music wire I have purchased at the hardware store is very stiff and if very difficult to bend. I realize the smaller is a little easier, but I have had a hard time trying to wind the music wire.
You then mention it comes in coils, I have not found this type of music wire on a spool. Unless you are speaking of wire for string instruments as guitars and such. I have purchase guitar strings and tried that, but that does not bend very easily as well. |
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
You can get coils of Malin music wire at McMaster Carr.
I use .025, .035, and .041 depending what I need. Often I am restricted by the opening as to the number of turns I can put on the spring. I usually preload it. That is I leave the ends so they are in more of a v instead of straight across from each other. They are heat treated for about 15 minutes at 500 degrees in a regular oven. Be sure that the pin is loose again the inside of the spring when it is compressed. As the spring tightens down, that inside diameter gets a bit smaller. If it is too tight, it will eventually take the bend out of the spring. Michael is correct on the bullet catch in this application. Chalet used to do this on his doves to rabbit. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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tabman Inner circle USA 5946 Posts |
Its piano wire; strings for pianos in different sizes. Look online for piano tuning supplies for coils of it. Be careful uncoiling it.
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...
http://Sefalaljia.com |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-11-18 07:24, hugmagic wrote: Richard, are you saying that after makeing the coil spring for the hinge, that you should heat it in an oven at 500 degrees, or are you saying that the manufacturer is doing this in the process of manufacture? |
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hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
Yes.
Tabman is correct about uncoiling it. I take two stripe of sheet metal. Join them so they form a cross in the center. The coil is laid inside and the edges bent up and around the coil. Only then can you cut the restaining wires. You should be able to pull out from the center. You can get 1/4 rolls or full pound rolls. In the catalog is is called spring phosphate wire. You do not need the expense of stainless music wire. Here is a link...http://www.mcmaster.com/#steel/=4k4jys. Should be supplier locally. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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tabman Inner circle USA 5946 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-11-18 12:56, hugmagic wrote:..I take two stripe of sheet metal. Join them so they form a cross in the center. The coil is laid inside and the edges bent up and around the coil.... This is how piano wire comes from the tuning supply Richard, as I bet you know. Piano strings aren't stainless steel that Ive ever seen or used. And they seek straightness. If you ever release a coil you'll see what happens. Be sure to cover your eyes!!!
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...
http://Sefalaljia.com |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Tabman,
Yeah, those coils of piano wire will whip you into a bloody mess. You can also buy the coils with a brake, and I'd recommend it. Bill, I don't know what kind of wire you say is hard to bend, but I'd bet it's a lot thicker than .025. Richard, On some of my springs, I do have the legs more in a V than straight across. It depends of the lay of the hinge wings, as it will be used. The tutorial shows how I make them for the Card Stars. For any application, tension should still be on the spring when the hinge is as it will be after release (if that makes sense). I have since developed a method for setting the spring in the hinge and then driving in the pin, but it's almost a thing that has to be seen. Good point about the inside diameter. I overlooked that. The size of the opening is definitely self-limiting as to the number of coils on the spring. Rule of thumb should actually be, a few extra coils are usually better than too few. The number of coils will also affect the amount the inside diameter changes when the spring is tightened. Too few coils will sometimes bind when the spring is tightened. I have not tried heating them in the oven, but will, and will compare the difference. Thanks for that tip.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Bo J New user 9 Posts |
You will find the best springs to small spring-hinges if you look in shops that sell plastic hair-clips to girls. The clips are in many sizes and colours. The clips are cheap but the springs are of good quality. Buy several sizes and take apart the clips. You will find springs of different "softness" and diameter. The diameter of the axis in the clip must be of about the same diameter as the axis in the hinge.
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-11-19 13:06, Bo J wrote: This a good idea, unless the legs of the spring are too short for what you need. In any case, it is easier to insert the spring under tension when the legs are longer (that leverage principle), and then cut them shorter afterward. But yes, any pre-made spring that will work, will certainly save you a lot of time. I used mousetrap springs for the Dove in Balloon and Gloves to Dove trays that I made. They worked perfectly.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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tabman Inner circle USA 5946 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-11-19 17:46, Michael Baker wrote:...I used mousetrap springs for the Dove in Balloon and Gloves to Dove trays that I made. They worked perfectly. Exactly what I used for the Arrow Vest I made for Amazing Johnathan when we played Catch A Rising Star in Reno. Great little springs.
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...
http://Sefalaljia.com |
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donrodrigo Special user U.S.A. and Europe 635 Posts |
Thank you Mr. Baker,
Great info.Please forgive for tiem,but will post pics. ASAP of finished work. Thank you all friends. Respectfully Don. |
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magicjohn2278 Special user Isle of Man UK 544 Posts |
Don't know whether this will work without actually seeing your prop, but is there somewhere you could stick some strips of foam rubber (near the hinges), that would "encourage" the doors to fall open? - Not sponge draft sealing strips but the more ridgid sort.
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