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mindpunisher
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http://www.thisisnorthdevon.co.uk/news/C......cle.html

North Devon council is cracking down on stage hypnosis without a license. £1000 fine.

Other parts of the country will follow I am sure.

Do you wanna try and do street hypnosis here?
TonyB2009
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You live in a backward country, Mindpunisher. You have my sympathy. Is it still legal to burn witches, or has that, at least, been repealled?
mindpunisher
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I am for some kind of protection for the public. But this will make things very hard for the average hypnotist who doesn't do very highly paid gigs. Which is probably less than a handful.

Most of the Uni's up here have effectively banned them.
Anthony Jacquin
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The details outlined in the article are exactly the same as those in the hypnosis act. Nothing more.

They are not coming down any harder than they should.

Anthony
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mindpunisher
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But they are enforcing fines. The fact they are making public statements means t hey are serious about enforcing the law. For that to happen something must have brought their attention to stage hypnosis in their area.

Most councils are probably unaware of the situation and you could get away with a few shows now and then. But once their atention is brought to the fore it changes like a light switch...

But would you encourage street hypnosis in Devon on the basis of that article? Would you do it yourself?

Do you think the street is exempt from that law? Personally I wouldn't think so. Based upon history how do you think an "incident" on the street impromtu would go down with the press should it happen?
bobser
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Yeah this sounds more like a reminder than any new statutes. It seems like all you've gotta do is tell the council when you're about to pull out yer watch... and you're free to zap. All in all: 'Well done North Devon'. Think I'll contact my local council insisting they do the same.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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To get a license bobser you need insurance and a clean record. The councils that aren't enforcing this are not abiding by the law. They are most likely ignorant of the law at the moment. However as more shows appear and especially press coverage of problems they too will tow into line(if they occur and there is a good chance they will at some point). Ive seen it happening before most people will not know about the law including council officials until someone points it out to them or the local police.

If someone informed the police they would act.

And personally its not a big deal to have a show "cancelled" although its not much fun. I've had it happen. What is disturbing is the fines up to £1000.

you r council Bobser might not know this yet. But just one complaint sent to them and or the police and you might see a change in their attitude.
bobser
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Unless of course I call it: 'The magical power of suggestion' show. Making a declaration that I DO NOT use hypnosis. That takes care of the insurance and the license. Just tell them it's a Druid form of Shamanism, which it might well be of course. In fact... it is. There, sorted.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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Except only druids turn up and expect you to lengthen their ***es and bless their crops.

Try it though I'm curious to find out. I think best way is to get the insurance and be done with it. And get the licenses.
bobser
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No, the best way is to bullsh-t your way through it. It's more fun. I'm a rebel. I'm running free with my hair blowing in the wind. I'm edgy, urinating in milk bottles and I just couldn't give a jot. Women love me and men want to be me.
"The best way is to get insurance..." hhhmmmmfffff! Yi big woman's blouse!
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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Well go for it bobser. If all you want to do is dingy pubs in the sticks maybe you will get away with it.

I would be interested in seeing a council or who ever enforces the law along with the £1000 fine and yer ********ting....

Would be more interesting than the shows...maybe your right...

Just video it for me.
Shrubsole
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Now don't shoot me down in flames as I'm very new to this, but wondered what all your thoughts were on the following:

Allegedly, none of the Hypnotism Act applies IF what you are doing is for scientific purposes. - Is that part correct or not?

If it is, then I have heard of alleged ways around the act:

Pass out a sheet of paper with some "Research" questions on it to all people who took part in your show. Questions like "Did you think you were hypnotised?" - "How did it feel" etc - These answer sheets are a part of your (utterly bogus) scientific research.

Secondly, to be scientific research, then it has to be published - Very easy nowadays as you can simply print them all out and offer copies at a small charge (You could even set up a website publishing them and offering copies for a small charge. - Either way you could if you like put lots of time and effort into producing your work or turn out almost complete rubbish: it matters not. You could charge 50p and copy or £5,000,000 a copy as you don't expect anyone to actually buy a copy you just need to satisfy the requirements of scientific research by publishing your findings.

That way you are not doing a Hypnotism show for entertainment purposes, you are doing a Hypnotic demonstration for scientific research purposes.

Genuinely: I would like to hear everyone's views on this as there is so much grey area going around at the moment, a straight answer is hard to get.

By all means state that you think it is complete rubbish, but if you could explain why as well, I'm sure that it would be very helpful to me and others.

Please remember none of the above is my ideas, just what have been posted by others on the internet.

It's a sad state of affairs as how can anyone get started? No one is going to pay out for an expensive licence to do a short £80 show - It just would not be worth it. And no one would offer anyone a £800 show to someone for their first gig.

It's like the old Equity catch 22 situation we had (have) here in England: (Equity = the actors/others union) You can't work professionally unless you are a member of it, but they won't let you join until you have done a set amount of paid professional work! - What nonsense!
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
mindpunisher
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I think its a good thing personally in the current climate. But go ahead and try the scientific approach anyway. I'ld be interested in the results.

If someone REALLY wants to do it and the market is right they will find away.

on the other hand this will stop a lot of cowboys screwing it up for everybody else.

I think its great.

£80 shows for hypnosis? Are you off your trolley?
Decomposed
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I'd like to see them try and prove Im using hypnosis on this side of the pond MP.


:online:

PS: The nerve of those guys.
mindpunisher
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I am sure in your part of the world (may be wrong) that "hypnosis" is banned from being used with witnesses by interregators or therapists?

Wasn't there a case where someone accused of murder had false memories implanted that caused them to believe they were guilty when actual fact they were innocent?

The thing was the therapist that was interrogating him wasn't a hypnotist. She had no idea she was hypnotising him with her process.

However the court brought in an expert in hypnosis who showed them what had happened. The guy got off and hypnosis from that point on was banned.

It is certainly recognised in the states at least some of the states where you need a medical license to practice.

As for the stage I have no clue. Perhaps you have a more relaxed veiw over there.

All I can say is that over here we did have some problems with hypnosis in the past. And it if it does come back hopefully these new regulations will help by keeping the cowboys at bay who screwed up the market in the first place over here.

I think its a great idea. Anyone who is serious and does things correctly will be able to bypass this if there is a market.

And the public will be safer also.

Doesn't get better than that.

To be honest they haven't changed that much you always needed insurance but I never heard of the fine before. Its down to whether each council enforces the law.

One thing is for sure if its not enforeced and hypnosis comes back in a big way the cowboys will screw it up again.
Shrubsole
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The £80 show was just off the top of my head, but was talking about first shows that one would do cheaper to get launched.

As the kind of small short show that you could do in a pub and not draw much attention to the fact. If you are in a big city, then of course that is silly money but if you are in a run down town in some pub, then I can't see them paying much for an un-named act.

Sure everyone wants a £800 corporate gig with their name in 59 foot lights as their first gig, but there are not too many of those around.

As with any profession, you have to start somewhere and build a name for yourself - Then you can expect to be paid more for being the well known (even if it's just locally). Then "The Great HypnoToad" who everyone is talking about and will attract a high ticket charge so that the venue can pay you the large fee that you expect.

Singers around here only get about £120 for a whole evening of singing, so landlords only see Hypnosis as just another form of entertainment to draw punters in and so will pay about the same.

Clubs will pay slightly higher but not much more than £180 - For bigger money you have to travel and best are corporate gigs who do have the silly money to splash about - However, they would want a named act with a reputation and so not suitable for someone starting out.

Also, the downside being that the bigger you become, the more attention you draw - and frankly in this current climate, that is not always a good thing.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
mindpunisher
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This is what I would do.

Do as many free parties as you can. Hold one yourself invite as many friends and tell them its a hypnosis show.

Once you have a few under your belt then go to those pubs in the small villages. And offer a ticket deal with the owner. They get the beer money you get the door money. @ only £5 a ticket that's £500 for 100 turning up. In small villages word gets round and you might be surprised at the response.

Do this for a while and you will soon get the insurance money plus the practice.

Singers have always got much less than hypnotists. But they also get resident bookings where they play week after week. Hypnotists are more of a novelty you will get a couple of rebookings over a long period of time. If your lucky!

Plus hypnotists will draw a crowd where as a singer won't. They will entertain who ever is there. But people will come specifically to see a hypnotist.

Even with the clubs tell them your prices start @£400 but you are willing to take money on the door instead.

Get rid of that attitude - clubs pubs will pay depending upon the market demand and how you sell yourself.

I would go with the door money first. After a few of them you will be more confident about what you are worth.

Hypnosis is one of those rare professions where you don't need to build a name for yourself first. Just market yourself as a successful hypnotist. In general the public don't know the difference between one hypnotist and another...

£5 is nothing for a night out these days NOTHING. I would be charging £10 -£15 depending upon where I was doing it.

In a short time agents will have heard of you then it will be easier to negotiate with them for other work. But keep your prices at a decent level. If you start off low you will stay there. If you are only half decent you are worth at least £400 a show.
Shrubsole
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Many thanks for the helpful advice, I fully agree with all you have said.

Cheers!
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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