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Roger Kelly
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Kent, England
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Profile of Roger Kelly
As my posts have been brought to question, I suppose I'd better chip in. However, to be honest, I'm finding it difficult to add to Martin1025's additional comments as he's pretty much summed it all up.

I'm far from stubborn Satoeri, and frankly I am questioning your use of the word here. The geezer is quite clearly talented and the best of luck to him.

Sadly, he lost me before 30 seconds were up and I found myself reaching for the razor blade tin.

Incidentally, the videography is superb and is worth massive praise from me, as someone who recognises that particular art.
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Profile of fingerjack
On 2009-11-24 06:17, Roger Kelly wrote:
Incidentally, the videography is superb and IS worth massive praise from me, as someone who recognises that particular art.

Wow, and I thought the videography was shameful compared to the skill level of the flourishes. In fact, the worst thing about the video was camera work.

That aside, great video! I wasn't bored at all. I love both flourishes and magic and I can see both points. Just a matter of taste.

Someone else here already said it. Just when you thought you were getting good, along comes someone that gives you a reality slap. Amazing how something can give you inspiration and make you want to give up at the same time.

Great stuff...thanks for posting. This thread however won my vote for the worst titled thread I have ever seen here at the Café, until I watched the video. And wow, it was on YouTube!
MAGNAPALM - The World's first psionic magnetic implants that is changing the future of magic

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I'm TORN.........
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Profile of rochaz
On 2009-11-24 03:32, DStachowiak wrote:
Nice apartment


- We do not want them to suspend disbelief in the way they would in theater and story. We want them to think critically and observe carefully. Our job is to force them to believe in magic even against their better judgment.”
Whit Hayden

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Mr. Mystoffelees
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I haven't changed anyone's opinion in
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'This thread however won my vote for the worst titled thread I have ever seen here at the Café, until I watched the video. And wow, it was on YouTube!"

Yeah, a bit cryptic. Sorry, it just said what I felt. I thought the whole thing was excellent- including the staging, music, etc.- seen much worse from seasoned performers. I am not a flourish fan (no pun) but was able to really enjoy this. Who knows, this guy may have some great magic chops or be a surgeon at his day job. What he can do may be boring to some, but the world is full of people who are bored most of the time- it's largely attitude...

Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Profile of Rudy
I thought this was absolutely great. Even loved the music. I can only imagine the many years of practice that went into all that. Well worth it.
Harry Lorayne
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Profile of Harry Lorayne
The guy is incredible; wish I could do a quarter of the stuff he did. I would imagine he knows better than doing five minutes of flourishes for a lay audience. The nitty-gritty is - the guy's incredible. HL.
Mathias Kersting
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On 2009-11-24 03:10, martin1025 wrote:
The purpose of magic is to create effects that are deceptive, entertaining, and that have audience interaction. I can see that moving forward. However, I am having a hard time saying the same about flourishing. Flourishing will NEVER make an audience react the same way an actual magic performance can. Flourishing cannot create audience interaction, an engaging story, and the illusion that what can't be happening is happening. To me that type of Flourishing says this to it's audience "hey watch this repetitive motion, I will not talk, and you do not take part in this presentation."

Of course flourishing is not magic and can't produce the same results. And it doesn't have to; it's an art of skillful manipulation of playing cards. Just as juggling is a skillful manipulative art.

I can be quite happily entertained by a pro-juggler doing a great routine - showing his passion, emotion, creativeness, and skill. He may not be talking, and I may not be taking part, but I don't care because I'm entertained. There's no reason why card-flourishing can't be entertaining as well. Jerry Cestowski and De'Vo seem both successful with there shows.
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Profile of ProgrammingAce
Card magic is boring because it's not football. In an NFL game, you'll have 80,000 fans screaming, cheering, drinking... I mean, when is the last time you saw someone with a giant foam finger at a David Copperfield show? Magic might be fun for, like, 30 seconds, but football keeps an audience going for a full 2+ hours.

If you really want to entertain a crowd, you should put down the playing cards and start playing football.

I personally enjoy performing magic. I'm not going to fault someone else for enjoying flurishing... Particularly someone who has obviously devoted a significant portion of their lives to the art. I'm going to take that video as presented, and enjoy it.
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Profile of Bean

To me that type of Flourishing says this to it's audience "hey watch this repetitive motion, I will not talk, and you do not take part in this presentation."

And Terpsichore stands in a corner, weeping silently. Your definition fits dance, juggling, motion pictures, theatrical productions, concerts (voice and orchestra), all spectator sports and most magic with the exception of close-up. Spectators, for the most part, spectate, they don't interact with the performer. Whether the "distant" performance mystifies you, astounds you, moves you to tears, makes you laugh or makes you go, "Wow! I could never do that!" or does any or all of the above while interacting with the performer close-up, it's a success. Football bores me to absolute tears, but on the rare occasions when I'm forced into watching, I can still admire the effort, the grace and the athletic ability. I enjoy ballet; my husband hates it. When it's on, though, he'll sit through it and afterwards tell me how amazed he was by the jetes. Different strokes for different folks and all, but c'mon! Let's not dismiss something out of hand as "boring" (meaning, "Personally, I don't like it so it's not worthwhile.")

P.S. As a juggler and a long-time Flying Karamozov Brothers fan, Smile to all those juggling haters out there. Smile If you think juggling ain't interactive, you've never seen the FKB.
Mary Mowder
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Well said "old" Bean!

Sorry, I could not resist! I could not agree with you more.

-Mary Mowder
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Profile of keeblem
On 2009-11-24 01:20, Roger Kelly wrote:
Great stuff for those who care. But this is juggling. It's boring

It's art. Some people do find art boring. I believe they're called philistines.


P.S. Hey, no offence! Smile
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Profile of julieannjohnson
Wow, I am surprised to see all the hating on this video. From my point of view it was not boring.

I think of card flourishing as the cranberry relish on the dry turkey slices of card magic. A whole program of flourishes would entrance me, but then, I have been known to eat cranberry relish straight.

Card magic without any flourishes? "Pick a card, any card." C'mon, folks -- that is boring dry turkey.

A card act -- like a silk act -- is built of rhythm, personality, and mystery. This man was demonstrating the rhythm portion of the program.

Now, imagine having his kind of flourish control added to the wit and stage persona of a Cardini. That would be some card magic I'd like to see.
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