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Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2009-11-24 17:59, Scott Cram wrote:
Scandelous or No? Congress may be getting ready to answer just this question:

CBS News Blogs: Congress May Probe Leaked Global Warming E-Mails


It's news that Sen James Inhofe, the man who compared climate scientists to the Third Reich in a 2006 interview, would like to probe the leaked emails?

Quote:
It's also having other repercussions: Legal fallout of Climategate - CEI to sue NASA


Ah the Competitive Enterprise Institute--those nice guys who put out TV commercials claiming that greenhouse gases are good for us.

Quote:

The three main points of contention in the Climategate e-mails are:

1. The discussion of data manipulation in order to get preferred results.

2. The discussion of the subversion of the scientific peer review process, in order to ensure that skeptical papers had no access to publication.

3. The discussion of deleting files that are subject to British FOIA requests. Deleting material subject to FOIA requests is a crime.


Have you actually read any of this?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Nosher
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It's not 50/50 when it comes to 'one side says this and the other 'side' says that'.

For example, recently a petition by some members of the American Physical Society, requesting changes to the Society's statment about climate change, gathered a lot of publicity on the denialist circuit/websites. The APS responding to the petition of 0.45% (200 or so) of its 47,000 or so members (yes, that constitutes a side, apparently), said :

"The Council of the American Physical Society has overwhelmingly rejected a proposal to replace the Society’s 2007 Statement on Climate Change with a version that raised doubts about global warming."

They also reaffirmed their statement on climate change which reads :

"Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth’s climate. Greenhouse gases include carbon dioxide as well as methane, nitrous oxide and other gases. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of industrial and agricultural processes.

The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring. If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now.

Because the complexity of the climate makes accurate prediction difficult, the APS urges an enhanced effort to understand the effects of human activity on the Earth’s climate, and to provide the technological options for meeting the climate challenge in the near and longer terms. The APS also urges governments, universities, national laboratories and its membership to support policies and actions that will reduce the emission of greenhouse gases."
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Payne
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Quote:
On 2009-11-24 13:30, LobowolfXXX wrote:

What's the proper context for a phrase like "hide the decline"?



This apparently is the proper context.

from http://www.skepticalscience.com/What-do-......-us.html

"I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline."


What do the suggestive "tricks" and "hiding the decline" mean? Is this evidence of a nefarious climate conspiracy? "Mike's Nature trick" refers to the paper Global-scale temperature patterns and climate forcing over the past six centuries (Mann 1998), published in Nature by lead author Michael Mann. The "trick" is the technique of plotting recent instrumental data along with the reconstructed data. This places recent global warming trends in the context of temperature changes over longer time scales.

The "decline" refers to the "divergence problem". This is where tree ring proxies diverge from modern instrumental temperature records after 1960. The divergence problem is discussed as early as 1998, suggesting a change in the sensitivity of tree growth to temperature in recent decades (Briffa 1998). It is also examined more recently in Wilmking 2008 which explores techniques in eliminating the divergence problem. So when you look at Phil Jone's email in the context of the science discussed, it is not the schemings of a climate conspiracy but technical discussions of data handling techniques available in the peer reviewed literature.

So apparently nohing to see here. Move along
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Tom Bartlett
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All I can say right now is, it feels good to have my postings my about global warming and crooked scientific studies being validated by just and upright scientist.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
EsnRedshirt
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Tom, I'm not sure the "crooked scientific studies" are the ones you think they are...
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Magnus Eisengrim
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One would do well to hold both positions--the one you like and the one you don't like--to the same standard of evidence.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
MagicSanta
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Will you huggers please just publish your list of peoples to be liquidated first so we can get on with things?
Dr. Van Van Mojo
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Did someone mention global warming?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOOc5yiIWkg
Tom Bartlett
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From what has come to light, it is clear, at least to the open minded, that the only way to get a peers reviewed papers published was to support global warming and that the evidence used for all the reports were intentionally withheld from certain scientists and in some cases by destroying it.

It is also clear that the government is going to go after and discredit, by any means possible, the ones involved in exposing the corruption in the scientific community.

But what bothers me most are the good scientist that won’t stand up and demand an all out investigation.
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acesover
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Quote:
On 2009-11-24 14:10, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Michael,

I've made the argument before- even if you don't factor in "saving the earth", switching to green and renewable energy sources-
1) is cheaper in the long run.
2) creates jobs which cannot be outsourced. (Someone has to build and maintain the solar panels and windmills.)
3) significantly boosts our national security by reducing dependance on foreign oil.

Now if you want to argue that one side or another is using scare tactics to increase the urgency, that's fine- argue about the tactics, but the points above should be enough to warrant a push for converting to green technology.


OK..Devils advocate here..

Cheaper in the long run...How long is the "long run" 10 years or maybe 20 or are you talking a century? No answers avaliable...

Build and maintain Solar panels..How long do you think it will take China before they build these panels ship them here and still be cheaper than we can make them? Because we will of course have to have a "Solar Panel union" that starts the new employee at $25 an hour plus benefits.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Chessmann
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Quote:
On 2009-11-25 12:22, acesover wrote:

Build and maintain Solar panels..How long do you think it will take China before they build these panels ship them here and still be cheaper than we can make them? Because we will of course have to have a "Solar Panel union" that starts the new employee at $25 an hour plus benefits.


LOL!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2009-11-25 12:05, Tom Bartlett wrote:
From what has come to light, it is clear, at least to the open minded, that the only way to get a peers reviewed papers published was to support global warming and that the evidence used for all the reports were intentionally withheld from certain scientists and in some cases by destroying it.

It is also clear that the government is going to go after and discredit, by any means possible, the ones involved in exposing the corruption in the scientific community.

But what bothers me most are the good scientist that won’t stand up and demand an all out investigation.


Funny. If you check the literature, you will find lots of articles that dispute various claims and counterclaims. Part of being openminded involves actually looking at the evidence before pronouncing.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Tom Bartlett
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Quote:
On 2009-11-25 14:23, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-11-25 12:05, Tom Bartlett wrote:
From what has come to light, it is clear, at least to the open minded, that the only way to get a peers reviewed papers published was to support global warming and that the evidence used for all the reports were intentionally withheld from certain scientists and in some cases by destroying it.

It is also clear that the government is going to go after and discredit, by any means possible, the ones involved in exposing the corruption in the scientific community.

But what bothers me most are the good scientist that won’t stand up and demand an all out investigation.


Funny. If you check the literature, you will find lots of articles that dispute various claims and counterclaims. Part of being openminded involves actually looking at the evidence before pronouncing.

John
As I stated in my last post; the government and the government controlled media are doing it’s best to discredit and suppress any peer reviewed reports or articles by credible research scientist or sincere journalist. We are only going to get to review the evidence that has not been destroyed or is reported by the liberal media which supports global warming that is not an honest. Don’t you think destroying evidence makes any of the statements and articles by those which destroyed it suspect and therefore unreliable?
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kcg5
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Any time I hear "government controlled media" I think the person who said it is either missing out, or I am missing something big, something the size of Mt. everest... Like saying Obama isn't a citizen, almost makes your statement moot by saying it.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
Tom Bartlett
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Quote:
On 2009-11-25 16:01, kcg5 wrote:
Any time I hear "government controlled media" I think the person who said it is either missing out, or I am missing something big, something the size of Mt. everest... Like saying Obama isn't a citizen, almost makes your statement moot by saying it.
Let’s see, Lou Dobbs was part of the main stream media. He said on his show to Obama; just show the American people your birth certificate so it can no longer be disputed. Lou Dobbs is no longer employed by the main stream media. The conclusion is if you do not carry the water for this President you won’t be employed by the main stream media. As you said it ALMOST makes my statement moot.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
MAKMagic
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Got a birth certificate? I do. I can show it. I don't need another paper that states that it exists I have the actual one.
As for government controlled media. If you don't think there's a filter then you ARE missing something big.
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critter
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Quote:
On 2009-11-25 14:23, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Part of being openminded involves actually looking at the evidence before pronouncing.

John


YYYYYYEEEEESSSS!!!!
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
EsnRedshirt
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Acesover-
Cost reductions through going green saved my company about a penny per share. Sounds small, if you don't follow stocks, but it's actually huge. That's just last quarter, too.

Tom, Mak-
:stircoffee:
One lump or two?
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MAKMagic
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EDIT: For the record I think government controlled is a bit strong. Influenced...biased...filtered sure. It isn't controlled the way China controls the media and info.

As for the BC I have no definitive position. I just love how everyone laughs it off as 'crazy' to question it and ask for ACTUAL proof(not proof of proof LOL). I think the crazy is on the flip side. Blind acceptance is one our biggest issues I believe.

Ps. Love you guys. Except Josh
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critter
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So... the birth announcement from the newspaper and the public health records and the Certificate of Live Birth don't constitute proof?

Edit: Ugh, I don't know why I had to say anything about this at all.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
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