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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Oh God, not another Derren Brown thread! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The Mac
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Yup, brace yourself.

I have the Manchurian Approach DVD; set am getting ready to try some of this. The one thing I noticed,
I see that Derren is using hypnosis, but doesn't do the whole "sleep...1, 2, wide awake" thing. The volunteer seems to be not in a trance.

This interests me because I don't want to state the words, "hypnosis" or "sleep" and "wake" in performance, but use it as the underlying method.

I have pm'ed Anthony Jacquin about it and I'm sure he will give wonderful insight, but how do you guy explain this form of hypnosis?
mindpunisher
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Why not just learn hypnosis if that's what you want to do. Why would you want to be Derren Brown?

Derrens TV show is highly edited. I assume you don't have a tv show? No I didn't think so.

Also be aware of the law around hypnosis. To attempt street hypnosis or impromtu in public places is asking for trouble. If you live in the UK. I don't know what South Africa is like.

And finally get some proper training. Or learn some pseudo hypnosis stunts.
MatthewH
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Hey Mac - take a look at James Tripp's (UK hypnotist) blog http://www.hypnosiswithouttrance.com/
The name says it all, and could be along the lines of what you're looking for.
Cheers! matt
The Mac
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I don't want to be derren brown. I don't want to outright state that all the stuff they are seeing is "merely" hypnosis. I like the spectators to not have a clue on the method.

Thanks Matt I will look at it!
The Mac
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Mind punisher,

you seem to be a very angry man. Anyway down here theres not much in the way of that sort of training. I only have overseas rescources to learn from such as Anthony.

Anyway thank you for the reply...sleeeeeep! When you wake up you will find that rather large chip on your shoulder removed and replaced by happy thoughts..1.2 wakey wakey.
mindpunisher
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Actually what ""seems" is your perception its inside your head. So if an angry man is running around in it then its your head.

I might be a bit bored though. All these Derren clones. (your own thread title sums it up) And if you want to learn hypnosis then do it properly.

Whats angry about that?

Who knows perhaps one day incompetence with hypnosis will land you in trouble...

And maybe then YOU will wake up.
Anthony Jacquin
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Hi The Mac,

I am away in Austria running a course on such things right now. I will get back to you in full on Monday. There are many ways of using hypnosis covertly. I will answer your other questions too when I get back.

Anthony
Anthony Jacquin

Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis
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Jerome Finley
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James Tripp has some very useful information for someone just diving into this area from what I've seen so far. It's low risk at FREE (!) though I'm not sure how one can trademark the term 'hypnosis without trance'(how does one trademark or patent a common phrase or state of mind?), but that is neither here nor there. He has some useful insights.

I would agree with MP that it serves one very well to get some formal training (hands on, real time experience) and with that in mind ANYONE can learn to use the power of suggestion, waking trance states and even pseudo hypnosis or body magic to share some really incredible experiences with your participants.

The body of hypnosis literature and solid instruction available and outpouring currently is in the mega-volumes with a single click; the proficient trainers in this field are legions. Ormond's Encyclopedia has a few useful chapters on the subject of waking hypnosis and Orville Meyer's 'Telepathy in Action' is perhaps the greatest example of this I've ever seen or used.

With regards to pseudo hypnosis, Fraser Parker has a wonderful little work titled, 'Struck Dumb' (formally titled, 'Stuck to the Floor, Unable to Speak) which is available via Lybrary.com for a very modest price. You can see a video of the performance here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS55wkAqNiY

Expanded versions, methods and ideas for this are appearing in my long overdue 'Thought Veil.' In it I've included my own methods and discoveries in this field and for as much trancework as I do, "eyes open, waking trance states" and the power of suggestion is one of my first loves and most useful body of work.

Derren's 'Voodoo doll' routine is (not surprisingly) not his from what I've found in my research, but nonetheless, what you see in that and other videos by him is easily accomplished through simple suggestions and the premise of "waking hypnosis."

Though met with a more mentalism slant, Luke Jermay's book 'Building Blocks' and '7 Deceptions' are both useful works for ideas regarding suggestion and how to use it. It's not a far leap from seeing the lines on someone's palm beginning to spin and finding their arm locked in place, eyes sealed shut, unable to move, speak or remember their own name, eyes open visualizations/hallucinations and other phenomena.

Best of luck,
Jerome
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The Mac
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Thanks mind punisher,

I hope we can all be as great and all knowing as you.

TT2, Thanks you for that insightful write-up. Derren has used bits from other people, even exposed magic on TV. We all learn from first copying then branching out to our own stuff (well most of us anyway).

I have created a lot of mentalism routines that would be stronger/cleaner with covert hypnosis. I mentioned Derren in the title because we are all familar with him so it makes a good example. Does this mean I want to be a derren clone? Of course not, my work is centred around close up magic which leads to mindreading.

I want to be known as a magician who can do magic with the mind as well as physical objects. I don't want the spectators to hang everything on hypnosis. I hope this makes my intentions clearer.

Thanks to all.
Mac
mindpunisher
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>>>>>Thanks mind punisher,

I hope we can all be as great and all knowing as you.<<<<<

We both know that's impossible. But at least you are smart enough to thank me.
The Mac
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...and you're stupid enough not to notice sarcasm.
mindpunisher
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(thats so funny)

LOL
magician2121
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Derren uses NLP or Neuro Linguistic Programming.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own." -Adam Savage
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2010-02-09 20:35, magician2121 wrote:
Derren uses NLP or Neuro Linguistic Programming.


And you know that...how?
Are you a certified NLP trainer? A certified master practitioner? A certified practitioner?
Or are you sure he uses NLP because he says so?

I know a guy who does a living and dead test. He says he can figure it out from Voodoo.
Do you really thank that's what he's doing, or is he just talking about Voodoo as a form of misdirection?
Mindpro
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Rremember, just because an entertainer says he's using hypnosis or claims "hypnosis" does not really mean it's hypnosis. Magicians have been using "hypnosis" or "a trance" just for effect for years as a premise. Same for pseudo hypnosis and the like...learn and know the difference.
dmkraig
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I agree, Mindpro.

Years ago, I saw a magician bring out his assistant to do a levitation. He said he was going to put her into a hypnotic trance where she would appear to be in a deep sleep faster than any person in history. Two other assistants held her so she wouldn't fall to the ground.

There were no passes with his hands and no "Look into my eyes" instructions. Instead, he pulled out a pack of pasteboards and said, "Pick a card. Any card."

Immediately she collapsed into what was supposedly a deep hypnotic trance. About a third of the audience was laughing hysterically and a guy sitting near me said, "I'm never going to do a card trick again."

Personally, although the performer said he was putting her into a hypnotic trance, I have my doubts...
mindpunisher
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>>>And you know that...how?
Are you a certified NLP trainer? A certified master practitioner? A certified practitioner?
Or are you sure he uses NLP because he says so? <<<<


I know some of the most respected names in NLP and theythought Derren was real

I think all NLPers should be certified.
dmkraig
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And MP, are they also world-class mentalists? A good magician and mentalist, like DB can easily fool a NLPer or a scientist.

I was assuming that because 2121 used a nick where he called himself a magician that he was one. My fault or assuming that people here would also know some magick and mentalism.

Silly me! Assuming that on a forum called "The Magic Café...."
mindpunisher
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One of the biggest names in NLP thought Brown was genuine I had to tell him he was fake. He was about to use him as an example in his marketing as a real example of what covert persuasion could achieve.

After I told him he still thought it was possible to achieve some of the things he had seen Derren do with NLP.
bobser
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Great point MP, we see this all the time from both NLP-ers AND psychologists. And lets be honest... some magicians also. When DB did the one about the 3 marketing guys beong influenced many in the magic world (included highly experienced magicians)believed it to be utterly genuine!
And yes, IF you should ever reveal to one of these NLP-ers or psychologists that it's a trick many will still believe there's something in it.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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