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balducci
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Various people are claiming that the next "crisis" to hit is going to be a massive debt crisis, faced by a number of nations around the world. I've probably seen about half a dozen news stories on this subject in the last couple of weeks. For instance:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on......1368880/

Excerpt:

---
As the dust settles from the G20's frantic efforts to revive the global economy over the past year, investors, voters, credit rating agencies and the leaders themselves are starting to get a clearer picture of the bill for that unprecedented spending. Britain's deficit is set to expand to 13.2 per cent of its GDP in 2010 from 11.6 per cent in 2009, which will push its gross debt to 82 per cent of the economy, according to the International Monetary Fund. In the United States, the budget shortfall will fall to 10 per cent of GDP in 2010 from 12.5 per cent this year, but the debt-to-GDP ratio would still be almost 94 per cent. Japan is in even worse shape. Its debt is on track to grow to 227 per cent of GDP next year and 247 per cent in 2014, leaving the country's government little room to manoeuvre.
---

How would members of the brain trust here at the Café handle this?

Cut taxes? Raise taxes? Impose a national sales tax? Start a new world war in order to seriously boost the economy? (I've seen one serious business person predict that this last one is coming sooner than we might think.) Curtain spending on social programs, and cut things like social security (in the U.S.)?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
MagicSanta
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Things will improve after the huggers start the massive genocides.
Dannydoyle
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This has been the real focus of my objections to ANYTHING our government here wants to do of late. Everything from fighting wars (which is another subject sorry but costly if nothing else) to health care to cap and trade to anything they can name.

I mean one thing that strikes me about government is that once they are in charge of a spacific dollar, they do not want to relinquish control of that dollar for any reason. I give an example. The democrats talk about all the "waste and fraud" involved in Medicare and how they will take 1/2 BILLION out of it and not hurt services, and this will pay for health care. Ok cool, but since we have that waste and fraud NOW, why not clean that up first? Why find a new way to spend it? Even in Washington 1/2 BILLION is a boatload of money. So why not show us they can do things like this and then we may be more trusting that they can perhaps handle things better?

But that dollar is there and if they do not get the health care wet dream they will keep going with "waste and fraud" and that seems a bit odd. Neither party is innocent of this behavior.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
MAKMagic
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Quote:
On 2009-12-02 00:51, Dannydoyle wrote:
Ok cool, but since we have that waste and fraud NOW, why not clean that up first? Why find a new way to spend it? Even in Washington 1/2 BILLION is a boatload of money. So why not show us they can do things like this and then we may be more trusting that they can perhaps handle things better?


EXACTLY! And there is a TON more things they can do like this in healthcare, taxes and spending, Gov't programs, militarilly, pollution, energy etc... etc...

Unfortunately the "New Solution" and "Forward Progress" is giant expensive leaps and bounds that are mere thin really sticky bandaids that don't solve anything. They help one place while hurting another and will bleed through in short order. They get the thumbs up though because "at least they're doing something about it".

There's a saying about peeing on me and rain....
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balducci
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So, no ideas beyond cut wasteful spending?

You think that will do it?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
HerbLarry
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The amount of wasteful spending can not be calculated due to its enormous size. I'm talking Universe enormous. So yeah it's a good place to start. Problem is one mans waste is another mans necessity, usually because the second guy can't find work. Getting back to a capitalist system wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Getting Congress too accept their responsibility for currency would help too.
The Federal Reserve buying chunks of AIG is not the way to go.
You know why don't act naive.
MAKMagic
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No no no...that's not what I am saying. My point is that's not what they are doing. They aren't fixing the current problems with the system. They are trying to implement something new to counter the effects that occur because of the problems. Why not fix the problems FIRST, then see where you are at?

So - instead of stopping fraud, double billing, excessive and or erroneous billing, ludicrous law suits, wasteful spending (as just a handful of things off the top of my uneducated head) they want to implement a NEW government program to grant rights and benefits to people to be paid for by other people (say what you want about the details that's the short story of it).

See THIS way they create a bigger dependancy upon the government, which creates yet more government. It's a beautiful cycle that a ton of people love because they get stuff. Doesn't matter the effects or off of whose backs. Tie it up with a "good cause" "for the people" and MANY people would be perfectly happy allowing someone else to happily bear their burden for them whether it's healthcare, housing, food, debt, health of major corporations or carbon credits. As long it sounds like they are trying to make progress.

There's only one way to support people and programs that don't support themselves - take what is needed from those that have it. What happens when the cut is too deep and the flow can't be stemmed? You bleed out...there's nothing left.
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balducci
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Quote:
On 2009-12-02 13:09, HerbLarry wrote:

Getting back to a capitalist system wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Reminds me of a funny quote.

"We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No."

- Actor Craig T. Nelson
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Tom Bartlett
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Quote:
On 2009-12-02 13:26, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-12-02 13:09, HerbLarry wrote:

Getting back to a capitalist system wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Reminds me of a funny quote.

"We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No."

- Actor Craig T. Nelson
I do not consider welfare and food stamps help either.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2009-12-02 13:09, HerbLarry wrote:
Getting back to a capitalist system wouldn't be a bad idea either.


You mean like the one we had during the Gilded Age?
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
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Doug Higley
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Commercial Real Estate. THE impending disaster.
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
balducci
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Quote:
On 2009-12-02 17:56, Doug Higley wrote:
Commercial Real Estate. THE impending disaster.

You're right there. That's another shoe ready to drop.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
landmark
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War is always a safe bet.
markmiller
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We need another Bill Gates to come along and create a new industry - maybe green -to spark employment, new taxes, and debt reduction.
LobowolfXXX
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You mean a new green industry that involves companies not among the 900+ publicly traded companies listed in the Green and Renewable Energy Stocks Directory? I gotcher wind/solar/biofuel right here:


http://www.renewableenergystocks.com/Com......list.asp
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
markmiller
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There were computer companies before Gates came along but he lit the industry - and the economy - on fire.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2009-12-02 19:56, markmiller wrote:
There were computer companies before Gates came along but he lit the industry - and the economy - on fire.

I see what you're saying, but I don't know how we can plan to make that happen.

It's not really a strategy to manage the debt so far as it goes.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2009-12-02 00:51, Dannydoyle wrote:

Even in Washington 1/2 BILLION is a boatload of money.

Half a billion ain't so much. This lady in France recently showered a friend with 1.5 billion dollars worth of gifts:

http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyle......20091202

I need a couple of friends like that. Okay, even just one.

Quote:
On 2009-12-02 00:51, Dannydoyle wrote:

The democrats talk about all the "waste and fraud" involved in Medicare and how they will take 1/2 BILLION out of it and not hurt services, and this will pay for health care. Ok cool, but since we have that waste and fraud NOW, why not clean that up first? Why find a new way to spend it? Even in Washington 1/2 BILLION is a boatload of money. So why not show us they can do things like this and then we may be more trusting that they can perhaps handle things better?

The way the two main sides go at one another in the States, I don't see this happening. Giving support to the other side in any major way is a sign of weakness. Can't have that. I don't know how you fix that.

I think for the sort of gradual step by step change you want to see, it will have to wait until some party has a huge super majority (with an allowance for dissenters) in both houses. Which may never happen.

Or else things have to get so bad that both sides unite ... could happen, but if it does I bet it won't be until late in the game, after the time for easy solutions has long passed.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
tommy
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To start with I would cancel all credit debts and ban them.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
critter
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Legalize prostitution in state run brothels, of which the fed gets a tax cut too.

Also legalize marijuana and sell it in state run dispensaries. Like a liquor store.

With those two measures in effect we not only wouldn't be spending money to combat these two things, but we would be making money off of them as well.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
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