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MagicSanta
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Yup.... because it would fall into the catagory of the US dictating to other countries how they should operate on their own turf and all I keep hearing from the lefties is how we, the US, are trying to strong arm other poor defensless peoples. Well, make up your minds, do you want the US to tell countries what can or cannot take place or do you want us to let them choose there own destinies? Oh what a tangled web!

Now we have a situation with Danny where he used the word 'morally' which is another term that we more conservative types use while, again, the lefties don't think morals should be considered. I mean, how many times have we said "it isn't right" just to hear the response "it isn't against the law"?

Clearly if a company is going to another country for manufacturing is isn't for the quality or performance of the employees, it is financially based. They go because they don't want to filter out pollutants in water used in processes, which is costly, they do it because they want to pay workers next to nothing. Who can put an end to that? The countries involved! Certain processing has been done in Mexico for decades so they can dump the pollutants in the rivers where locals get their water and kids play. Hey, as long as folks are making money on the stocks and execs are raking it in no one will really do anything about, sure they will whine about it, but they won't DO anything about it other than, once again, pointing a finger back at the US for what goes on in other nations. What a shock.

I do find it interesting that John feels that buying Nike's is the same as getting a preteen prostitute in Vietnam is on the same scale though....
tommy
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Who Is Behind The IPCC Movement?

Trans-nationalist "citizens of the planet" comprise the primary force that energizes the IPCC.

Dr. Bonner Cohen, Senior Fellow National Center for Public Policy Research, USA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THlcFceTPd0

Jeff is. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2009-12-06 16:25, MagicSanta wrote:

I do find it interesting that John feels that buying Nike's is the same as getting a preteen prostitute in Vietnam is on the same scale though....


Interesting and false supposition. That they are both examples of exploitation hardly implies that they are of the same scale.

But I doubt that you were being serious.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Payne
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Quote:
On 2009-12-06 15:36, Dannydoyle wrote:

I have always wondered why people think corporations are evil when they WANT better fuel economey for planes and such.



Because they want the better fuel economy for maximization of profits, not because it's better for the environment. Profits are not a bad thing if they are shared with the workers who help to generate them. Unfortunately an unequal share of the profits go to upper management and share holders. These profits are also maximized at the workers expense by cutting wages, benefits and positions. Profits are also made at the expense of the consumer with reduction of comfort, services offered and increased fees.
Don't kid yourself. If gas was still 30 cents a gallon the airlines would have done nothing to improve fuel efficiency.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
tommy
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If the USA uses the most fuel on earth then is it the worst environment in the world?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Magnus Eisengrim
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It's a bit like peeing in a pool...pollution doesn't always stay near the source.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
tommy
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Might be like farting in the pool.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2009-12-06 17:05, Payne wrote:
Don't kid yourself. If gas was still 30 cents a gallon the airlines would have done nothing to improve fuel efficiency.


Really Payne? You think that companies would do nothing to improve fuel mileage if they had to pay less for fuel? Even though it would be greater profit? You can not possibly be serious or you have absolutely no idea how a well run business works. I wonder what it is that makes you hate capitalism so much Payne?

So lets talk an oil company for a second. How much "profit" do they make once it is all said and done? Then answer me how much tax they pay. Then tell me why the number is SO high on the tax side.

You seem to think it is ok for the government to take 30% of a persons money when they do NOTHING to earn it. Yea you want to claim they provide a service to get it, but the simple fact is Payne that the evil companies you hate so much also provide a service, equipment, research and development, drilling, and scads more of things that are not necessarily "profit".

You don't mind the government taking the money from the worker, just so some company can not have it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
balducci
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Quote:
On 2009-12-06 19:22, Dannydoyle wrote:

Really Payne? You think that companies would do nothing to improve fuel mileage if they had to pay less for fuel? Even though it would be greater profit? You can not possibly be serious or you have absolutely no idea how a well run business works. I wonder what it is that makes you hate capitalism so much Payne?

Doesn't the experience of the U.S. automotive industry show that companies will do nothing or next to nothing to improve fuel mileage, so long as they can get away with it (i.e. cheap fuel makes it unnecessary for them to worry about it)?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con......387.html

Automakers have made no progress in improving vehicle fuel economy over the past year, continuing a nearly 25-year trend of industry stagnation on gasoline mileage, according to the Environmental Protection Agency.

The 1982 level was 21.1 miles per gallon, almost exactly today's level.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2009-12-06 19:22, Dannydoyle wrote:

So lets talk an oil company for a second. How much "profit" do they make once it is all said and done? Then answer me how much tax they pay. Then tell me why the number is SO high on the tax side.

Would you mind explaining what you mean?

Oil companies make BILLIONS of dollars. I don't begrudge them that. I invest in oil companies, so the more profitable they are the better so far as I am concerned.

But what is the point you are making?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dannydoyle
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I am asking what percentage of the money they take in does that BILLIONS represent? I am further asking what percentage of the money they take in goes into the government.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2009-12-06 20:32, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-12-06 19:22, Dannydoyle wrote:

Really Payne? You think that companies would do nothing to improve fuel mileage if they had to pay less for fuel? Even though it would be greater profit? You can not possibly be serious or you have absolutely no idea how a well run business works. I wonder what it is that makes you hate capitalism so much Payne?

Doesn't the experience of the U.S. automotive industry show that companies will do nothing or next to nothing to improve fuel mileage, so long as they can get away with it (i.e. cheap fuel makes it unnecessary for them to worry about it)?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con......387.html

Automakers have made no progress in improving vehicle fuel economy over the past year, continuing a nearly 25-year trend of industry stagnation on gasoline mileage, according to the Environmental Protection Agency.

The 1982 level was 21.1 miles per gallon, almost exactly today's level.


Again please tell me this is not a serious point. The AIRLINE getting better fuel mileage directly impacts the bottom line of the company. Tell me you see the difference. The auto makers are not using fuel efficency (other than indirectly as a sort of "campaign") to impact bottom line profits.

Do you not see a difference?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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http://jb-williams.com/4-25-06.htm

This guy seems to think it is a staggering amount of money the government makes from taxes on the oil companies.

Yet here (a source I find a bit more middle of the road) seems to think it is pretty close.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/do......_in.html

So the company that does all the work, makes about exactly the same as the government from a gallon of gas. In most cases less. Why is that fair?

Why is it ok for the government to make such HUGE amounts of money, and not private industry? Government by definition makes the money OFF THE BACKS of the people. It is virtually the only way they can get money. So why is this ok?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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300% TAX! On gas over here Dan.

http://petroltax.co.uk/
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Wow. Now THAT is a tax!

Odd that this is the model we seem to want to replicate.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
balducci
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Quote:
On 2009-12-06 20:53, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-12-06 20:32, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-12-06 19:22, Dannydoyle wrote:

Really Payne? You think that companies would do nothing to improve fuel mileage if they had to pay less for fuel? Even though it would be greater profit? You can not possibly be serious or you have absolutely no idea how a well run business works. I wonder what it is that makes you hate capitalism so much Payne?

Doesn't the experience of the U.S. automotive industry show that companies will do nothing or next to nothing to improve fuel mileage, so long as they can get away with it (i.e. cheap fuel makes it unnecessary for them to worry about it)?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con......387.html

Automakers have made no progress in improving vehicle fuel economy over the past year, continuing a nearly 25-year trend of industry stagnation on gasoline mileage, according to the Environmental Protection Agency.

The 1982 level was 21.1 miles per gallon, almost exactly today's level.


Again please tell me this is not a serious point. The AIRLINE getting better fuel mileage directly impacts the bottom line of the company. Tell me you see the difference. The auto makers are not using fuel efficency (other than indirectly as a sort of "campaign") to impact bottom line profits.

Do you not see a difference?

In the case of the automotive industry, non-automotive companies were clearly not pushing for fuel efficiency in automobiles so long as fuel was relatively cheap. If they had been, the automotive industry would have addressed that concern. It did not.

I do not have data for the airline industry, but I suspect it was the same sort of thing. So long as jet fuel was cheap, airlines were better able to maximize profits by directing their energies elsewhere (e.g., dropping meal services, dropping in-flight movies, cramming more passengers on flights, etc.).
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dannydoyle
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It is not a valid comparison in the least.

You are talking about OUTSIDE preasure on the auto industry. You are comparing apples and hand grenades.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Odd that this is the model we seem to want to replicate.

Indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cef-NSqFmAE


Ignore him at your peril land of the free.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Payne
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Quote:
On 2009-12-06 21:03, Dannydoyle wrote:

So the company that does all the work, makes about exactly the same as the government from a gallon of gas. In most cases less. Why is that fair?



Because the lion's share of the money made from gasoline tax goes to pay for construction and maintenance of the roads and bridges. Without them you'd have nothing to drive on

Of course we could go the libertarian route and make every road a toll road thus issuing in a new age of robber barons
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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