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Dannydoyle
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And the do a darn poor job of keeping them up if you ask me.

So it is ok for you if the government makes money off of the backs of people, just so it is not a company?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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“The climate is changing. Glaciers are melting. Droughts happen more often. Southern Europe is threatened by desertification. And climate refugees are already abandoning the lowlands of Bangladesh, for example, threatened by rising sea levels. The melting of glaciers in Greenland and Antarctica are threatening catastrophic sea level rises. Floods are getting worse. Tropical diseases are moving from the Equatorial regions to Europe and other temperate zones. These are facts“

Well, at least the “facts” don’t include polar bears falling from the sky any longer.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
MAKMagic
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I got banned for one of my
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Quote:
On 2009-12-07 00:27, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-12-06 21:03, Dannydoyle wrote:

So the company that does all the work, makes about exactly the same as the government from a gallon of gas. In most cases less. Why is that fair?



Because the lion's share of the money made from gasoline tax goes to pay for construction and maintenance of the roads and bridges. Without them you'd have nothing to drive on

Of course we could go the libertarian route and make every road a toll road thus issuing in a new age of robber barons



Negative, that may have been the intent - but I believe it goes into the "General Fund". Can't speak for the feds for sure, but CT Gas tax isn't cordoned off for Roads and Bridges.

We know how accountable the General Fund is.
.:Michael Kelley
<BR>www.RandomActsofEntertainment.com
On the Level, By the Square
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2009-12-07 00:27, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-12-06 21:03, Dannydoyle wrote:

So the company that does all the work, makes about exactly the same as the government from a gallon of gas. In most cases less. Why is that fair?



Because the lion's share of the money made from gasoline tax goes to pay for construction and maintenance of the roads and bridges. Without them you'd have nothing to drive on



I would like the see a percentage that defines "lions share".
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Turk
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Quote:
On 2009-12-06 17:05, Payne wrote:
***
Because they want the better fuel economy for maximization of profits, not because it's better for the environment. Profits are not a bad thing if they are shared with the workers who help to generate them. ***
***
Don't kid yourself. If gas was still 30 cents a gallon the airlines would have done nothing to improve fuel efficiency.




"Profits are not a bad thing if they are shared with the workers who help to generate them."


1. By definition, profits cannot be shared with the workers because the workers' cost is a cost of production that is first deducted before profits are realized. Business owners have the risk and are compensated for taking such risk and entitled to profits after all cost of production and cost of doing business are paid.

If you inisist on a looser definition of the term "profit", well workers do share in the "profits"--by the wages they are paid and/or other benefits provided to them for their contibution to the production and the resulting "profit". Whether or not workers should be given a bigger share of these "profits" without having to share in any profit risk or cost of doing buisness, well,...now we are into an entirely different philosophical discussion.

2. WOW!! In a rare moment, Payne has revealed his true communistic desires and philosphy. Be it "Global Warming", "Corporate Exploitation", or (insert here your favorite trite commuistic boogeyman phrase), I now understand the perspective upon which Payne pontificates.



"Because they want the better fuel economy for maximization of profits, not because it's better for the environment."


Such an naive and hateful comment.

1. First off, "for profit" business are in business to make profit. So, to have a motivation for doing that for which your business was formed, and leagally entitled to pursue, is not, in itself, wrong.

2. "They" too have to live in the world--and are effected by environmental issues--be they positive or negative. To presume that a business would ignore environmental issues at their own personal detriment and injury, is really a leap.

But, I guess it is always easier to play the blame game when trying to compensate for deep-seated feelings of hatred, inadequacy or deprivation. It's always some one else's fault for your status in life...and never your own.



"Don't kid yourself. If gas was still 30 cents a gallon the airlines would have done nothing to improve fuel efficiency."


Payne, please don't kid yourself. All of us try to maiximize our buying power and the value of our money. We stretch our dollars' value as far as we can. Individuals and corporations are no different in this regard. In addition, "for profit" corporations are, by definition, in business to make a profit. (Payne, sorry I had to remind you of this elementary fact.)

To assume that corporations would not try to maximize the value of a $00.30 gallon of aviation fuel, is asinine and naive in the extreme and show a utter lack of understanding of what makes a capitalist system of business work. Businesses are always trying to maiximize profits. In the end, that is their job. All the rest (including paying workers wages) is just the means of getting there.

Just, IMHO, your mileage may vary.
Magic is a vanishing Art.

This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto.

Eschew obfuscation.
Regan
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The polar Bear commercial is only one of several of this type I have seen recently.
Mister Mystery
balducci
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Quote:
On 2009-12-09 11:16, Regan wrote:
The polar Bear commercial is only one of several of this type I have seen recently.

Poor polar bears.

I guess Coca-Cola was not hiring for their own commercials in this economic environment.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2009-12-08 18:34, Turk wrote:

1. By definition, profits cannot be shared with the workers because the workers' cost is a cost of production that is first deducted before profits are realized. Business owners have the risk and are compensated for taking such risk and entitled to profits after all cost of production and cost of doing business are paid.



If you ever start a company I want to come work for you as you sound like a barrell of laffs to work for.

Quote:

If you inisist on a looser definition of the term "profit", well workers do share in the "profits"--by the wages they are paid and/or other benefits provided to them for their contibution to the production and the resulting "profit". Whether or not workers should be given a bigger share of these "profits" without having to share in any profit risk or cost of doing buisness, well,...now we are into an entirely different philosophical discussion.



But the workers share of these profits through their wages has been stagnant for over two decades, even though productivity is up as well as those all so important profits.

Quote:

2. WOW!! In a rare moment, Payne has revealed his true communistic desires and philosphy. Be it "Global Warming", "Corporate Exploitation", or (insert here your favorite trite commuistic boogeyman phrase), I now understand the perspective upon which Payne pontificates.



Socialistic desires actually. Which in no way I keep secret. and if you don't think that Corporate Exploitation isn't a problem that needs to be addressed then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.


Quote:

"1. First off, "for profit" business are in business to make profit. So, to have a motivation for doing that for which your business was formed, and leagally entitled to pursue, is not, in itself, wrong.



Agreed. But there are also ethical values as well as legal. At what cost are those profits derived. Several companies as of late have implemented layoffs. Not because they were in danger of losing money or going out of business but because profits were down. Thus they commoditize their workforce and possibly do irreparable harm to their business all in the name of maximized profit.

The Wall Street Journal once chastised Costco because it thought they paid their employees too much in the form of wages and benefits. As long as your business model is sound and you're making profit how can you pay your employees too much?


Quote:

2. "They" too have to live in the world--and are effected by environmental issues--be they positive or negative. To presume that a business would ignore environmental issues at their own personal detriment and injury, is really a leap.



So all those Toxic Super-fund sites that dot the country side are just unfortunate industrial accidents? Exxon voluntarily came forward and willingly cleaned up and paid proper restitution to all those affected by the Valdiz oil spill? Erin Brockovich didn't come to fame because PG&E did the responsible thing and properly disposed of the heavy metals from their compressor station and didn't dump them into the ground water. Union Carbide's Bhopal plant was properly designed and maintained and the workers sufficiently trained?

Yes, It's really a leap to say that Business would ignore environmental issues at their own peril. From here quite a short one too. Eighty miles from where I sit lies a small town called Skykomish. There is located a fueling station for the Burlington Northern Railroad. Instead of doing the correct thing they went cheap. It was cheaper to just let the spilled fuel and oil lay on the ground than to actually bother to clean it up. After all fuel was cheap the labor to clean it up expensive. So after nearly a century of this behavior Burlington northern now has to pay to lift the entire town up building by building. Scrape off the toxic PCB filled dirt and replace it with clean new soil.

But since no railroad executives lived in the little town all this environmental damage wasn't done at their "own personal detriment and injury"

Quote:

But, I guess it is always easier to play the blame game when trying to compensate for deep-seated feelings of hatred, inadequacy or deprivation. It's always some one else's fault for your status in life...and never your own.



My status in life is fine. I have no feelings of inadequacy or feel in the slightest bit deprived. I sense a bit of projection here, but that's just me. I just like to stand up for the little guy. those who weren't fortunate enough to be me.


Quote:

Payne, please don't kid yourself. All of us try to maiximize our buying power and the value of our money. We stretch our dollars' value as far as we can. Individuals and corporations are no different in this regard. In addition, "for profit" corporations are, by definition, in business to make a profit. (Payne, sorry I had to remind you of this elementary fact.)



I wouldn't want to deny any business a fair and equatable profit. But they need to be reminded from time to time the true cost of those profits and to who they are indebted to for making them.

I'm not anti business I'm anti bad and irresponsible business. Business has shown to us over the years time and time again that they can't be trusted and necessarily don't have the best interests of the workers, customers or environment at heart.

All those pesky rules and regulations they are continually complaining about because they complicate their life and cut into their profits aren't made by do gooder legislators sitting around thinking up new laws out of thin air. No these regulations were all put in place because some business tried to pull a fast one and cut corners to maximize their profit at the expense of someone else. Thus laws were made to try and prevent another unscrupulous business from trying it again in the future.

If it wasn't for greedy business men we'd have a lot smaller government than we do today as we wouldn't need all the various agencies we've had to put in place over the years to oversee their unscrupulous actions. Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Regan
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We need something to oversee the government's unscrupulous actions!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mister Mystery
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2009-12-09 12:46, Regan wrote:
We need something to oversee the government's unscrupulous actions!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It is called a voting booth. But when people lie and spin things and have socialist agendas contrary to the founding of our country, it does make things tougher.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
kcg5
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Danny, to be fair, it could easily be spun the other way..
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
Dannydoyle
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To be fair, it just as often is.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Payne
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But the whole point is that we have, or at least have the illusion of having, say in our government(s). We are not afforded the same luxury in the boardrooms of corporations. And those corporations often times have a far greater influence in our day to day lives than the government does.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Dannydoyle
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This shows what little you know about the boardroom of a corporation Payne. While you having a socialist agenda will get few if any of your views heard or considered by any corporation, they do listen. They listen when people vote with the dollars. They are driven by profits and you and every one of us has a chance to vote and influence those of our friends not to buy certain products.

There is a long history of people changing corporations minds on all sorts of issues just by not buying or buying from the competition. It is the POLITICIAN we have no control over.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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In truth are we all Nazi? Watch - skip to 6.35. Jim Marrs-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNHYMH2wkWg
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Payne
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Quote:
On 2009-12-09 14:03, Dannydoyle wrote:

While you having a socialist agenda will get few if any of your views heard or considered by any corporation,



Which is why I focus my energies on the political arena where democratic socialism is slowly gaining acceptence as more and more people see the benefits of such a system. Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2009-12-09 20:33, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-12-09 14:03, Dannydoyle wrote:

While you having a socialist agenda will get few if any of your views heard or considered by any corporation,



Which is why I focus my energies on the political arena where democratic socialism is slowly gaining acceptence as more and more people see the benefits of such a system. Smile


And right before your eyes, it seems to be crumbling down after less than a year. Shame it is.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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POWER


In physics, power is the rate at which work is performed or energy is converted. It is an energy per unit of time. As a rate of change of work done or the energy of a subsystem, power is
P = w/t
where P is power, W is work and t is time.

What is it that we are talking about here but power.

Humanity can use as much power as it wish’s at the moment but it is alleged that it is using too much power and overheating the earth. Thus they seek to seize power and control it. They the Club of Rome.


“If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it.”

” Julius Caesar”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FYGmMzwJRA
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2009-12-07 00:27, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-12-06 21:03, Dannydoyle wrote:

So the company that does all the work, makes about exactly the same as the government from a gallon of gas. In most cases less. Why is that fair?



Because the lion's share of the money made from gasoline tax goes to pay for construction and maintenance of the roads and bridges. Without them you'd have nothing to drive on

Of course we could go the libertarian route and make every road a toll road thus issuing in a new age of robber barons


Which the libertarian route would do on all fronts (create a new crop of Robber Barons, that is).
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
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