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JoyJoy
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What did they use in the theater to make storm for already a long time? Sometimes they did throw leaves in the moved air, sometimes branches, sometimes nothing, sometimes snow imitation. How did that fly around? Often that device was hidden.
And in film business? Well there, it was not often the need to hide the device - just put them out of camera sight. But sometimes it was hidden in a rock etc.
Well there is a bit of an argument, that in the little segment called magic, they did only use paper fans before. But can we isolate that? Not easy and an interesting discussion, but I guess it leads to: It matters >where you hide it<.
And what is with the avalanche system? Collectors Workshop did use a different device, but still a hidden "storm maker". Okay? Cause it´s a different device (not a paper fan and not the other hidden devices)?

PS: Don´t let it get personal.
Hansel
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Quote:
On 2009-12-14 10:30, timsonefelt wrote:
Outside magic:
-Daimler and/or Benz invented the automobile - so Ford, GM, etc. can't manufacture them


WOW! Good analogy...
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timsonefelt
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OK, I can't sit idly by and let the rumors continue so I'll correct another mis truth:

While I've not used Mr. James' product, I have SEEN it up close and can tell from a glance that Glenn's model has several differences/things that many/most workers would see as benefits over Kevin's. Enough so that even if Kevin had a patent, Glenn could get one too - there are that many differences. Notice I didn't say improvements because Glenn had no way of knowing that Kevin even made one when he made his and released it years later, after refining and perfecting it (but still before Kevin made his public).

So based on your statement:

"Why didn't he change it, add something to it? Make some kind of contribution to it and that way have a real claim or right to sell it."

Everything is fine, right - end of discussion. Thanks for bringing this to a close finally with a statement we can both agree upon.

I won't/can't post the differences here, but if Glenn wants to that's fine. I'm sure Glenn would probably share them with Kevin in private (email or phone) because he's that kind of guy.

RE: why not sell for making money - Glenn honestly thought he had something unique and different, and while you don't know him, he does have a name among magicians (albeit smaller than Kevins). Since Glenn fully thought his to be an improvement/difference over the stool and gift (notice I didn't say over Kevin's speaker because again Glenn didn't know about it), he wanted to have his name associated with what he felt was rightfully his. Before full time in magic, Glenn was an engineer and uses this strength in all of his original magic, fully researching the best components and manufacturing practices/assembly for the project at hand (as I'm sure you do, being a builder yourself).

So hopefully since you've agreed with the above statement you made that all should be fine based on this new information I've shared, maybe we're done. I have NO financial interest in EITHER side - simply defending a friend here. I understand your financial interest and that you're also defending a friend. I realize that's why we're both so passionate about this.

I have a product line as well however and do have a vested interest in ethics in Magic but can honestly say that knowing both sides, putting myself in Mr. James shoes, I'd still have the same position - it's happened with a product I have/had on the market before. As a creator/inventor of magic tricks/routines/performance pieces, I FULLY realize there can be/have been two people in two places that have a like/similar idea independent of each other. I'm sure Kevin must realize this too. So, since Glenn had no idea or knowledge of Kevin's speaker product (it wasn't even a product at the time, but a custom project) and we now know that Glenn's is different (better?? in some ways??), and you've agreed that this should be OK, can we stop calling Glenn a THIEF? It's completely unjustified and unfounded with all the information that has been brought to light through these discussions.

I'll admit here that I made some pretty pointed comments, but am as passionate about this as you are. I mean/meant you absolutely no disrespect. There are always two sides to every story and both sides have the right to be heard. Thankfully, it seems this is over now and Glenn and Kevin can hopefully converse about this and put it to rest too. It would be great if you'd pass along that Glenn has been trying off and on since August to contact Kevin. I realize he's abroad, but I'm sure if you private message Glenn, he'd share his email with you to forward to Kevin so they can communicate even before Kevin's back in the US and they can chat.

At least the discussion here is done - it's a busy time of year for us all.

Respectfully,
Tim Sonefelt
MagicErik
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Euhmmmm.... The 'Air blower in whatever' IS public domain. Simply because it is not specific enough! He could claim rights for the blower in a speaker, but he can't claim the idea of 'air out of something'. He also sells a Flash Pan. That does not mean mr James can claim rights for everything that uses a flash....
So yes, Kevin James was the first to use a machine instead of a fan but unless he makes clear where that machine is in, he has no rights. It would be just the same as with Deceptive Base.... No one owns the rights for the deceptive base. Jim Steinmeyer created the Optical Wedge design as a new step in bases, but he cannot claim rights for every illusion that comes out now that uses the Optical Wedge. And James came up with the Card Umbrella. Why is he allowed to do that if it still is a 'card stuck on something'?? You are accusing someone of doing something that you are doing yourself... lol.
I find it very disturbing that some really seem to think that the fact that you are a bit more famous than others gives you the right to claim whatever you want. I see that also with people like David Copperfield.

Rafael, you seem to forget that you own a 'Head Drop' illusion. If I were to come up with a different method and a different gimmick, I could use that effect. Only ´Head Drop´ is to vage to claim rights for.

That´s my opinion... And now let us continue doing magic.. :-D
RVH Magic
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The facts:
Did Glenn create the snow animator effect?
No, Kevin did!

Was Glenn the first to hide the mechanisme in a speaker?
No, Kevin was?

Is Glenn routine 'inspired' on Kevins routine?
Yes, it is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4YqowreVXc

Since Glenn was clearly inspired by Kevins creation she should have contacted Kevin before releasing his version! that's the ethical & professional way!

MagicErik,
I don't claim to have invented the head drop effect so if you can come up with your own methode that's different from Cyrils, Peter Marveys, mine or any of the other authorised versions that exist already then go for it...
GlennStrange
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Because Kevin has not returned my phone calls and allowed me to have a conversation, I will post my side of the story and maybe he'll read it.

My Stealth Storm speaker monitor has been on the internet for 8 or 10 years. I assumed Kevin had no problem with that as he never called or contacted me in any way to let me know his feelings. I thought I was the first to put a blower in a speaker monitor. Only a few months ago did I hear that Kevin had custom built one for Amazing Jonathan in 1987. I heard that's what he was saying when he came out with his monitor at this year's Magic Live. I built my first monitor for my own personal use, and I used it for over 4 years before I put up a website. The only reason I put up the website was because another magician had copied my monitor idea and was claiming to be the inventor. So, I put up a web site in order to document that I was the first magician to put a blower in a speaker monitor cabinet. It was not to sell monitors or make money, or to take business away from Kevin. That's why I never advertised in any magic magazines or publications. I kept it low key on purpose, and It became knowledge only by word of mouth. A couple of times magicians would write about it on a magic talk forum. (like the Café) The web site is the only way I personally marketed the speaker monitor, and the website was created as a means of documenting what I believed to be the first blower in a speaker monitor used to do a magic effect.

Shortly after the Magic Live convention, I received word that Kevin had built a custom monitor in 1987. I called Kevin at that time to verify that what I was being told was the truth or to find out if it was just a rumor going around. He never returned my call. My plans were, if he told me he came up with the idea in 1987, I was going to offer to take down my web site and remove product from the market. As I said, the only reason I put the website up was to get credit as being the first magician to put a blower in a speaker monitor, and after Magic Live I was hearing second hand information that I may not have been the first.

Now, because of the information that has recently been posted here, I now believe that I was not the first. It was either Kevin James or Amazing Jonathan that first thought of placing a blower in a speaker monitor. I was hoping to explain my intent and reason to Kevin on the phone, but his refusing to return my calls has not allowed me to do that. So, as of December 14, 2009, I have instructed my web master to remove my Stealth Storm Blower from the internet. This will take place as soon as his schedule allows.

I regret and I am disappointed that Kevin never called me in person and let me know about the first speaker monitor blower (built in 1987), or his belief that I had ripped him off. I'm sure he knew my website had been up for almost 10 years and he never contacted me during that time to inform me of his thoughts. If he had done so, I would have removed my website then, and none of you would be wasting your time reading this. I also regret that Kevin's spokesperson, Jason Baney has publicly bashed my name and credibility to the magic world in such a public forum when he didn't know the whole story. His untruths are based off his incorrect and foolish assumptions.

As for as I am concerned this matter is over. My website will be down ASAP and my Stealth Storm speaker monitor is off the market. If Kevin has further concern with this, I sincerely hope he will contact me by phone to let me.

Thank you for your time in reading this,
Glenn Strange
JasonBaney
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I have informed Kevin as I said I would.

And on a personal note, for the record nothing I said was a lie, incorrect or foolish. I assumed nothing and I have only stated the facts as I know them to be. Period. No one here has every answered the questions I put back to them nor proved any fact that I stated was wrong. They may have disagreed but that does not qualify as proof. I have not once called any one a name or derogatory remark unlike the others who feel they have to try and discredit, insult and put down. I strongly recommend you keep your discussions professional and away from being personal.
JoyJoy
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Wow Glenn. You are a really honorable and honest man! You have my full respect after your last post and even removing the page. I hope you are able to get it cleared and maybe can go on selling it.
Hansel
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BTW anyone have this version? Any review or opinion?
Thanks,
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magicelam
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Not to beat a dead horse, but I just wanted to comment on Baney's obsurd use of "intellectual property."

The term doesn't actually mean anything, and will not hold up in court - they will require something tangible such as a copyright, trademark, registration etc.

this idea was debated at the university of Stanford, and all scholars agreed "intellectual property" pretty much means nothing.

that being said, I have to respect a guy who can put a fan in a chair and sell it for 2000...
Mike
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