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Dr. Delusion Special user Eugene, Oregon. 733 Posts |
About a year and a half ago I signed up with The World Clown Association in order to get covered by the insurance they offered. The only reason why I went with them, was that they were the cheapest around offering coverage that the venues we perform our magic show in, required. I sent them in the money, and it took months for them to send me anything. The bad thing was none of the stuff they sent showed any proof that I had the insurance. I tried numerous times to contact them, I think the guy's name was Roger that was in charge. They never would E-mail me back or return my calls. A few days ago I get this E-mail from them asking if I would like to join again. I sent back the response that I just mentioned back to them. A fellow by the Name of Andrew Moler, responded saying that they have new managment, and he said I would get proof of the insurance with in one business day of them receiving my dues. Have any of you dealt with Andrew at W.C.A., and is it worth signing up with them one more time ?
Thanks much, Bob. |
Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Seriously...stay away from the club insurance plans. They change with the wind depending on who is negotiating the plans year after year. COAI left their members hanging with no insurance mid-year a while back. Go with Specialty Insurance - It's affordable, reliable, consistent and top notch.
http://www.specialtyinsuranceagency.com
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
jiayi Veteran user Canada 313 Posts |
Is there any affordable entertainer insurance plan in Canada?
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
There's a thread in the SAM section discussing this. I was previously unaware that Specialty Insurance requires a U.S. mailing address. I have emails out to a couple of sources - hope to find something you Northern neighbors can use.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......m=197&14
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
sethb Inner circle The Jersey Shore 2719 Posts |
I went with Specialty this year on the recommendation of Skip and others here at the Café. I was very pleased with their quick service on issuing the initial policy, as well as one or two endorsement certificates that I subsequently needed for some specific shows (some carriers charge $25-50 extra for each certificate; Specialtiy issues them at no extra charge).
Specialty is actually an insurance broker, as opposed to an organization that contracts for insurance coverage, so it's like dealing direct. You get $3 million in liability coverage for $350 a year -- a pretty good deal. That also includes product liability coverage, which is essential if you pitch magic tricks (as I do) or if you offer BOR merchandise at magic shows. Haven't had to make any claims yet, so I have no experience with that, but everything seems to be copasetic so far. I even had one very nit-picky municipal administrator who repeatedly went over everything with a fine-tooth comb for my application in a citywide street festival. She was finally satisfied with the endorsement, the insurance company rating, their licensure in Minnesota, etc. All this just so I could pitch Svengali Decks and Magic Worms! SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC |
Michael Messing Inner circle Knoxville, TN 1817 Posts |
Just to clarify, I've never seen anyone charge for certificates of insurance. Many carriers will charge to name a company an additional insured. I've had both the SAM policies and the IBM policies in the past and neither charged for certificates. They both charged for adding additional insureds. (The IBM plan charges $30 for naming an additional insured.)
Specialty Insurance does name additional insureds for free which is a really good deal. A certificate of insurance is just proof of having insurance. Naming a company or individual an additional insured extends your coverage to cover them, as well, and is often required for working in malls, shopping centers and other venues. Michael |
Dr. Delusion Special user Eugene, Oregon. 733 Posts |
Thanks very much for the advice and comments. I'm going to play it safe and not sign back up with them. I think I'll go with Specialty, sounds like they may be the best out there. It's amazing how things have changed in the past few years with needing insurance. Seems like every one that calls for shows now will ask if I'm insured or not.
Thanks again for the advice. Bob. |
sethb Inner circle The Jersey Shore 2719 Posts |
Michael, thanks for the clarification on certificates and added insureds. That's what I meant, I just didn't know exactly what to call it.
Bob, having insurance is pretty much a necessity any more, and not just for the venues -- it's a good idea for the performer, too. I certainly don't enjoy spending $350 a year for something I will probably never use. But I know that I could spend $350 and more for one phone call to a lawyer to discuss his/her defending me in a lawsuit. And the costs of just defending such a suit could easily reach into the thousands, without even figuring in the costs of settling the case or satisfying an adverse judgment. If one kid chokes on a piece of candy, a bit of flash paper goes the wrong way, your tent blows down, you accidently poke someone in the eye with your magic wand or somebody slips or trips and falls over a piece of apparatus, then you've got trouble. $350 is a cheap price to pay for peace of mind, plus as you say, the venues increasingly require it (so just build the cost of it into your fees!) BTW, I think a certain percentage of people ask whether you're insured because they think that's what they are supposed to do -- but they don't really care if you're insured or not. If you do parties, I would bet that any incidents would be covered under the host's homeowner insurance (of course that doesn't protect you, just them). But asking the question and getting a "Yes" seems to indicate that you are a professional with a real business, and not just some guy who decided it would be fun to buy a tux and do magic tricks. And at least on a basic level, I'd agree that would probably be true. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC |
RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-12-07 23:36, jiayi wrote: For Canadians, there is a group policy you can sign on to at http://hkmb.com/industry/sportsent/performers.asp However, this will not cover any of your props. For liability insurance and prop coverage you need to get a special policy from a different broker and or carrier. This is the way we went because we have a large amount of money invested in our props. So, our policy base rate is over twice as much as HKMB but they allow us to purchase prop coverage at a reasonable rate on top of that and that is what makes it a deal for us. If your business is not too big, or you do not do a lot of shows, or you never leave the country to perform, you may also be able to get some prop coverage with your home owners insurance. Also please be aware that there are a number of very important restrictions that accompany most of our liability coverages including no use of fire or open flame of any kind, not using any animals other than doves and rabbits and, at least with ours, nobody other than the performer is ever to touch, pet or handle any of the livestock (doves, rabbits) at any time before, during or after a performance. So if you are someone who likes to let the kids pet your rabbit after a show, you may be in violation of your insurance and your policy may be voided. |
jiayi Veteran user Canada 313 Posts |
So if you use flashpaper in the show then it is a void policy too?
Quote:
On 2009-12-08 12:40, RJE wrote: |
RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Flashpaper would absolutely would be forbidden. You cannot even light a match under most of these policies.
I really am not sure who is buying all the pyrotechnic/flash/fire/flame props, but they may very well be doing so without insurance. That is just insane in this day and age and illegal in most venues. I performed for many years in shows that included a great laser light show. The laser company is still around and have performed all over the globe. They used to begin and end the variety show with a laser show that included flashpots. The crew was fully trained and certified to handle the flammable and explosive elements and did so quite professionally. They took them out of the show however when their insurance rates skyrocketed and more and more theatres began to prohibit their use. This, as a result of some very tragic events around the world where people lost their lives in fires resulting from pyro being used improperly by others. As well, being a performer here for close to 30 years and getting to know some of the finest performers in Canada over that time, one gets to hear a lot of "near miss" stories of people who have used fire in their acts. I have met and known fire eaters that have severely burned themselves. Jugglers that have set curtains and carpets on fire. A magician whose flash paper set a table cloth on fire in a restaurant and more. In the 80's, lots of us were using fire in one way or another without any real training or any insurance coverage at all. We bought the flash paper and lit it and tossed it. We soaked our torches and lit them. We overfilled dove pans and had problems putting them out. There were doves and rabbits singed, or worse. We had flammable liquids and gasses strapped to our bodies to produce super flame effects and more. We were d**m lucky that more of us weren't badly hurt or worse that we didn't injure any of our audience. Don't get me wrong. I think pyro done properly is a beautiful effect. I also think anyone doing it (any flame, fire, flashpaper, etc...) without insurance or proper training is totally being irresponsible and seriously needs to stop. |
Brian Lehr Inner circle Edmonton, Canada 1605 Posts |
Quote:
This was the insurer I was with for about a year or two. Then I started using the Fire Book, Hot Leads, and Bearded Dragon in my shows. So I signed up to SAM to get their insurance policy. When it came time to renew this policy this year, they informed me that the policy had changed, and I was no longer covered as a Canadian performing in Canada. Well, I no longer have the lizard, so it looks like I'm going to have to drop the fire from my show in order to sign up again with this Canadian company. Brian |
alexa Veteran user NJ 393 Posts |
Hey Guys,
So everyone tells me to go with Specialty Insurance if you have employees, but looking on their website they don't seem to cover this. Any agents or large scale performers that could help me out with this? I'm looking to work with assistants as well as booking out artists that I will train at events with me as well as to their own events. I don't need coverage for bounce houses or anything like that. Many thanks, Alexa |
sethb Inner circle The Jersey Shore 2719 Posts |
I believe that the Specialty policy covers the use of flash paper, but prohibits audience participation with flash paper. However, you would also need to check with the venue (for example, many malls and trade shows prohibit an indoor open flame) and the local Fire Department. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC |
Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Who mentioned employees? The Performers of the US insurance program is an aggregate policy designed for the individual festival, restaurant and living room entertainer. The policy provides liability protection against bodily injury or property damage to a spectator during that performer's performance.
If you're planning on using employees as assistants, I suspect that you would need to negotiate a commercial business policy through an independent insurance agent. As the employer and business owner you would need to provide liability coverage against their injury (Workman's comp?) and their causing injury. If they're being used as private contractors (occasional use dancers, for example) then I would think that they'd need their own individual performer's policy. Not being a lawyer or insurance agent, I would suggest that you call Stephanie at Specialty and ask her directly. She may have a plan that would cover you as a larger business. The Specialty policy is also a limited performance liability instrument only. If you want to cover your props and stage equipment in transit, you need to look into maritime insurance coverage through a reliable independent agent. While we're on the subject of insurance - check your car and home owner's coverage closely. It is my understanding that most basic policies will not cover loss or damage to professional equipment without a rider or additional coverage. My agent recommended business riders on my Honda Element and my home workshop/storage area for this reason. Be smart and plan ahead! This thread discussed commercial maritime insurance and home/car riders: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=44
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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