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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
The question is... are Consent agreements needed for Testimonies and children shown in Promo Videos?
I am guessing that (to some degree) when an adult makes a testimony, the fact that they are agreeing to be filmed looking into the camera is (to some extent) a non-verbal agreement to being filmed and posted on the magician's site to help promote them and their services. However, in the case of kids being shown in a magicians promo-video --this seems to be a whole other kettle of fish or --(pardon the image...) "can of worms --worth a post in itself since I find that more than the occasional parent, nowadays is aware and concerned that posting a video of their event showing children (other than their own) having a good time, may not be the right thing to do without receiving written permission from the parents. In order to deal with these occasional (reluctant) parent's concerns head on, I have written a release agreement, and am planning to start asking parents to sign this agreement (signifying that they are allowing their child to be filmed and the video posted on the magician's web site, etc. I am curious to know if any other magicians have started to follow this protocol? I know it is a hassle for us, as magicians wanting to promote our services to the world wide web (our site , on YouTube, etc.), to create and have parents sign such consent forms, but... I am interested in the comments, insights and experiences of others on this subject. Jonathan
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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Doc Dixon Special user Pennsylvania, USA 655 Posts |
I think you're doing the right thing. Don't be surprised if parents decline. My wife and I are adoptive parents and have many friends who are adoptive and foster parents. There are several reasons (both law and safety oriented) why foster parents would not want their kids filmed.
To answer your question directly, the bulk of my work with kids occurs in schools, where such a release form's necessity would be a given. When it comes to children, asking permission isn't just a legal issue, it's a courtesy and safety issue. Best, DD |
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randyburtis Inner circle 1256 Posts |
Personal question, Doc, but what legal reasons are there, adoption wise, not to have your child video taped?. PM me if you want. As an adoptive parent I am not aware of any reasons...other than personal...
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Working in a school venue can be different than working other children's or family show venues.
At the school, you are entering the children's environment and getting permission to film them should be gotten. However, when the families/children come to your venue, it is a different thing again. For this type of show, when we are filming, we make a general announcement to the audience that any volunteer coming on stage consents to being filmed or photographed and their image may appear in our promotional material. Since the child is often sitting with the parent, then by allowing their child to volunteer, they have consented to the above. We have had parents send their child up and request a copy of the section of video with their child in it as a souvenier of the show, whcih we've gladly provided along with signed 8 x 10's and other promo "gifts." Still, if you really wanted to cover all your bases, having a consent form actually signed would probably help. |
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Doc Dixon Special user Pennsylvania, USA 655 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-12-13 10:38, randyburtis wrote: You are correct. I had foster parenting in mind when I typed that. DD |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-12-13 10:27, Doc Dixon wrote: I never would have imagined such a thing. I am ignorant of the process so that must be why. Putting on my old cop hat, it is pretty clear why. Makes sense for foster parents.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
I simply have a statement on the back of every ticket that state we can use there photo or image in any broadcast or other wise
sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
Sam said: "I simply have a statement on the back of every ticket that state we can use there photo or image in any broadcast or other wise"
-------------------- IMHO, I believe that parents of children shown in promo video should actually be signing a document to give their "true" consent, Sam. I have written a simple, yet honest and specific form of consent that should not scare too many people away, and should serve the purpose in a professional and respectful manner. Jonathan
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
I have to go with Jonathan here. All it takes is one parent claiming not to have seen or read the ticket disclaimer and two things could happen:
1) You have to remove the video and pull any print material holding still shots you might have used of that child from the video. 2) You're facing a potentially costly court battle. Your disclaimer may eventually win the day, but at what cost to you, your wallet and your reputation? A simple signed consent statement avoids both issues. A pain in the tukas, yes, but problems avoided.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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M Sini Inner circle 1359 Posts |
Skip, while I believe you are correct. There is nothing to stop them from taking you to court even with a signed consent form. Again, you'll probably win but it could still cost you money.
That being said, I don't see any of this being a big concern. |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
I'm performing for my local library, and the lbirary director has given me permission to video the show. Should that be enough?
Ed |
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-12-14 10:08, Mario Orsini wrote: ...um, why not, Mario? Guess I'm missing something... Please clarify why you feel that none of this is a Big concern. Many thanks. Jonathan
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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M Sini Inner circle 1359 Posts |
Sam has covered his butt sufficiently. He's done the same thing that is done whenever you go to a professional sports game. However, he could still be sued. Will the person win?... most likely not but there is nothing stopping him from being sued.
Same is the case with having a release form signed. You could still be sued. You'll most likely win but again, you could still be taken to court. My good friend owns and operates a Paintball field. Everyone must sign a release before they are allowed to play, but that doesn't mean he can't be taken to court if someone gets hurt. When I say I don't think it's that big of a deal, all I mean is that if you have recieved some sort of permission, whether it be verbal, written or assumed because they have purchased a ticket, then you've done all you need to do. Makes no sense to me to sit around and worry about someone trying to sue me. |
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
I bewleive that having the parent of a child that wil lbe in your promo video, sign a consent form, shows the parent that you are sensitive to any concerns that they "might" have and makes for good business. This being said, for home parties, perhaps having a brief and simple discussion with the parent(s) prior to show/filming time letting them know that you are filming the children and your show for a promo video is sufficient. To take this one step further... As long as the parents understand that you will not show their child in a negative situation (ie. being embarassed or being made, by the maqgician, to feel/look stupid), they will likely agree --unless they have non-obvious concerns such as being a foster parent, or perhaps the parent of a child with physical and/or speech challenges, etc.
For school shows, however, I beleive a signed form by the teacher and the parents would be highly adviseable. Of course, I could be wrong about all of the above, which is why I have thrown this topic up for discussion. All constructive input is much appreciated. And the input already recieved to date has been insightful. Many thanks. Jonathan
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Like Mario, I'm not overly worried about this. I've always been meticulous on releases with my still photos because I have a small fortune tied up in pamphlet and flyer design and printing. To throw away a couple thousand pamphlets because one parent changes his or her mind on verbal consent is just stupid. I want it in writing so I can throw any cost of replacement and litigation back at the complainant.
On video, you remove it from YouTube or your website and replace it with something else - problem solved - assuming the complainant can't prove any financial or emotional damages. At one time, I would place a sign at the entrance to my show area announcing the video taping for promotional purposes and felt that sufficient. These days, I invite past clients to a free staged party or event with clear notice that this is a promotional event with individual releases to be signed. Big deal? Probably not. Worth stressing over? Not a bit. Worth taking an extra step or two to keep it from becoming a big deal? Absolutely.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
All good points, Skip.
Thanks. Jonathan
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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Mr Amazeo Regular user 186 Posts |
These all sound like very good precautions and sound business sense, but I'm curious if anyone knows of an actual case of an entertainer being sued by a parent because their child ended up in a video clip? If so, what kind of damages would we be talking about?
I just read an interesting article about this topic at http://www.videomaker.com/article/3651/ - it helped clarify to me when an appearance on a video is incidental versus primary. I hope this helps a little with some aspects of this consent form discussion. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3171 Posts |
I agree that it is worth the trouble of going to the parent and getting written permission. Most parents are understanding and when approached the right way will give you permission to use a photo.
I own a preschool and I have to deal with consent forms all the time. When we enroll a child, we have the parents sign about six different consent forms. One is a photo release that gives us permission to take pictures and video the child. But I can't legally give someone else permission to use the pictures outside the school. So if you came to my school and did a show I can't give you permission to use the photos. You would need to get your own release from the parents. And it does need to be in writing. Anything not in writing would never hold up in court. While the ticket thing is a good bluff, I'm not sure it's enough if you did end up in court. The parent could always claim the child bought the ticket, and the child can't legally give you permission. They could also claim that it wasn't explained to them before they purchased the ticket. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
I will post a copy of my tcket later I cant seem to get it to paste right now.
I should clear up one thing. for public shows that I do when soem one buys the ticket they are entering a contract which is clearly printed on the back of the tickt. this covers me for everything and as mentiond above if some one woudl try to sue me I am covered. t his is what other top pros use and verified by my lawyer however for schools I ch eck with them to see if they have on record the permission forms for using a ch ilds photo in public viewings if so I then chekc withthem to see if htere are any childrens parents that have opted NOT to allow their children and if so I then ask they be seated in a specific area so that my cameras do not film them. there is more to say but need to run right now to get my daughter form school later sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3171 Posts |
Sam, by all means do what your lawyer recommends. I understand the ticket thing is used by many of the pros.
But when it comes to kids, here is the problem as I see it. A child cannot legally enter into a contract with an adult without permission from the parents. That's a fact that will stand up in any court. Ask any lawyer. So unless you can prove in court the ticket was personally purchased, and agreed to, by the parent, there never is a contract. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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