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magic924
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I hope not to start a debate only to open up information. I have watched many christian preachers cause people to be "slain in the spirit" falling over and what not. Especially Benny Hinn. Could someone please explain more of how these preachers are using hypnosis and not "divine powers"?
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dmkraig
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I would say the person who is an expert on this is Philip Farber, a regular contributor to the National Guild of Hypnotist's journal and a certified NLP instructor. He put out a 2-DVD set called "How to be a Megalomaniac" that explains what is being done and how to do it. Unfortunately, he has discontinued the set, but you can occasionally find them. For example, http://www.visible-effect.com/ shows it as being available through them, but I do not know if they actually have it.

The stuff you're talking about is more than hypnosis, It involves specialized NLP techniques. Mr. Farber taught them in a workshop I attended a few years ago. I would suggest that you look to see if you can find the set.
RSD
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Most of the TV evalengists I have seen, are some of the best hypnotists in the world - and no Im not trying to be funny or sarcastic.
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They are.
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bobser
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Quote:
On 2009-12-15 14:47, magic924 wrote:
Could someone please explain more of how these preachers are using hypnosis and not "divine powers"?


Because there is such a thing as hypnosis whilst there is no such thing as divine power.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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http://www.everythingabouthypnosis.com/

excellent article in December 4

Posted: Dec 16, 2009 6:10pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_CkZWTvKBc

Laught...
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The best video on the net related to this subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-DislkI


Here is a video I made on religion and trance, demonstrating hypnosis as faith healing being interchangeable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnAK4b2zJnQ
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis
mindpunisher
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I had to post this...

It has to be the worst scam I've ever seen its so funny watch the video. But be careful you mght sign up for the deal he is SOOOO good.

LOL

http://www.secretsofhypnosis.net/Easy2.h......odj3h4JA
Amirá
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Quote:
On 2009-12-17 02:11, Nongard1 wrote:
The best video on the net related to this subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-DislkI



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Frank Russell
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First, understand the Super-Pastors like Benny Hinn as mentioned in the opening post of this thread, they have such a strong faith one one of two things. Either God or money. Most of them have a strong faith in God but a strong need for more than $1,000,000 per month to fund their ministry.

If their primary faith is in God, what they are doing is being a vessel for God to send His message of the Word and the Truth and that Jesus Christ healed nearly 2000 years ago and he also heals today through us. As believers, we all have the same ability to heal the sick as all of the "Benny Hinn's" of televangelism.

If their primary faith is in money, what they are doing is worshipping money more than they should be worshipping God...which is a sin. Therefore, they are making a living as a "pastor" using cheap concrete to pave their way to hell. Their church suffers as a result of this false preaching.

Fake pastors, like the guy that was caught a couple years ago in an airport with an Electric Touch installed on him, are filled with demonic spirits and those spirits only spread throughout their fake ministry. Nobody can ever be healed if someone is praying for them using the wrong formula of prayer.

A true Pastor does not have to use hypnosis. That would be a sin. Hypnosis is real but don't dare try it when Prayer is supposed to be the method of healing. Many Super-Pastors are like Magicians...they have stooges. They also have many people on "stage" that are either desperate for a miracle or just love attention.

I can't read Benny Hinn's mind nor can I see into his heart but I do know he is a sincere man who get's a lot of negative criticism because of how dramatic his healing and miracle services are. His book "Good Morning, Holy Spirit" is probably one of the most Spirit filled books you can read.

OK, let me stop. I'm about to start preaching on the subjects of Prayer and Healing. This is probably a great opportunity to get people's attention focused on God but I do realize this is a Magic forum so I won't mix the two together. It might be too late to say I've gone too far with this but that's OK.

God Bless You All
Frank
tiriri
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Even though I believe in God and religion, I agree totally with RSD. Most of them are hypnotizing the public! Like that guy who was famous in the 80´s and is now in jail for a couple of very bad reasons. Don´t tell me he was in cintact with God!

Anyway, my question would be: Do they always do it on purpose? Because, I believe most of them use hypnosis and NLP without knowing they are using them, and maybe some of them believe that what they are doing is real divine intervention.

So, I think there are a lot of scams, but also a lot that just don´t know, and maybe some that might have the real thing...

Giovanni.
Scott M
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IMHO, I think that someone not having the presence of the Spirit of God in them can produce a counterfeit experience with hypnosis intentionally and un-intentionally.

As I study hypnosis, as a Christian, I believe many things are used for good and the same items can be used for evil.

It is impossible for me to convince a non believer that what happens in many experiences are the works of the Holy Spirit. Only the HS can do that. If you have eyes to see, you will see. If you have ears to hear you will hear. If not,then you are spiritually blind and deaf...so, the next best thing would be a counterfeit...and hypnosis can produce this counterfeit phenom very closely.

How the HS chooses to work in someone is up to the HS. BUT, MAN can choose to work from the FLESH and produce counterfeit spiritual movements.

I am sure many choose to work with deception. Many do not. I have seen much that the Spirit has done in healing and experienced much myself to know that this is something I can not dream up. I also know that there is much out there that is manufactured from the flesh and is deceptively manipulative and do more damage than good...and we hear more about these situations than authentic ones.

I know that if you want to know the truth, study deception. Kind of like knowing real $20 bills and all the markings on it. The only way you will know a fake one is by the study of the Real Deal.

If you know the Truth, than you would know the counterfeit.

For me, I know that I can entertain with hypnosis and to think I would take that and use it to show the works of God and to decieve people to think that it is the movement of the Holy Spirit would be detestable.

One thing I think that gets cloudy are the forms of language patterns and communication systems that lead people to influence them mentally AND SPIRITUALLY. This would make for some wonderful dialog that is beyone my understanding at this point. You all know more about that than I do. Maybe this is the fine line of doing hypnosis and experiencing the power of God...with both very familiar, but one changes people in the heart and spirit and the other changes habits and entertains people....and they LOOK and SOUND very familiar.

As any person knows...with power comes great responsibility. Smile

With respect and much passion.

-Scott M
Frank Russell
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I wonder if this post should be in one of the religion categories.

Anyway, I agree with RSD and Giovanni. There is so much dishonesty in the church. So many people only turn to God when they have a desperate need. When things are going good in their lives, most people tend to think they can handle things on their own and they will have to set aside a few minutes a day for God if they have an availability on their schedule...which almost never happens.

There is a lot of money going into mega-ministries. There are a lot of false preachings out there. I can assure you, those ministers know that what they have is either questionable or completely dishonest. They won't reveal that they know it because then they would have to leave their ministry and the perks that come with it.

These mega-ministries also have intercessors who work the audience before the person needing a miracle even makes it to the podium. If anyone is studying hypnosis or psychotherapy, it could be these intercessors. By the time they make it to the "celebrity" pastor, they have been so worked up about their miracle. Then add the pressure of meeting the celeb pastor and standing on stage in front of thousands of people in person and knowing that millions of people will be watching on television. It would make many people so nervous and so light headed that it might cause them to just "go with the flow" just to keep from being different.

Anyway, there are a lot of real pastors out there who are vessels for God. One way to know if you are part of a ministry who offers the real thing, ask for a prayer for a simple healing like a toothache or back pain. If you don't feel the results of your healing, ask them to pray again. After 2 prayer requests, if you haven't received your healing, you are either in a false ministry or the answer to your healing is on the way but there could be hindrances. I promise you that if someone prays correctly to God for healing, it will happen...if you recieve it...demand it...claim it...it's yours...take it!!!

Amen
RSD
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Go through the basic steps of a hypnosis show. Jot them down in order. Then watch a televangist on TV from the beginning. He will hit all the same beats a good stage hypnotist will hit.
Frank Russell
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RSD, you are correct. The similarities are stunning. The possibilities that "pastors" are using hypnosis in a church or in a conference is breaking my heart. Just the thought of it happening makes me want to lay hands on them and show them that praying in the Holy Spirit instead of using hypnosis to be healed is infinitely more effective.

I am very familiar with hypnosis. I studied it tremendously for years until I looked into a very popular subject in hypnosis, past-life regression. I "stumbled" across the subject hundreds of times during my study but I avoided it because it can not be therapy...it is entertainment. So, finally, years into my research, I decided to take a look at past-life regression. Within the first hour, I closed the books and I stopped right there and every book that I own on hypnosis is collecting dust. One day I would love to grow tomatoes on the dust of those books.

I know that hypnosis is real in many ways...diet, quitting smoking, depression, etc. Past-life regression and making people bark like a dog? No, it's not possible. That's not real hypnosis. That's a game that is putting people in a dream state instead of a hypnotic state. There is a major difference.
Scott M
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It is interesting that when one is lead by someone or on their own, to bypass the critical thinking faculties and into suggestion, anything can happen depending on what is desired.

What a hypnotist would use as a 'Set Piece' a Minister can use prayer, worship & praise and Scripture study. Both can and will lower the critical faculties...of which spiritual disciplines are meant to do...connect us for experiencing His Presence. It is hard to connect when your 'thinking', so this involves surrender and faith.

The difference is one being filled with 'suggestion' and in a 'trance' and the other is filled with the Spirit.

I am not a fan of Hinn, so hold back your comments on supporting him. I am curious though to what his 'Set Piece' is before his 'stage' show starts. All clips on youtube are of him waving his hand and people dropping. Kinda funny from one perspective, but what is the context and hopes of his work vs. the context and hopes of a hypnotist?

The Bible calls for believers to be transformed by the renewing of the mind. The mind can be wandering, empty, passive and open to accepting suggestions if left on its own strength. When filled with His Word, worship and praise...it is strengthened (by the HS) to be full, active, guarding and standing firm and not accepting suggestions from the world, flesh & enemy (the unholy trinity). The scriptures are filled with teachings of the battle of the mind between the flesh and the spirit. SOMETHING is filling your mind and affecting your decision making abilities and then your behavior to act on those decisions.

I personally believe God has his hand in hypnosis. It can be used for many things on the good side of the Jedi Force, but it also can be used for wrong reasons of the Dard Side and that is a personal choice that I will not personally judge, as it is not my job to judge what one does or chooses to be and do.

I pray for many things for healing, but I also take asprin and pain med's from a recent surgery. The breathing and relaxation before surgery worked well to keep me calm, so did the prayers from many people praying for me. I noticed the medical staff all have a 'set piece' they follow to comfort me and have the procedure be successful. Bypassing critical thinking faculities is EVERYWHERE and it is what you do with that that can hurt you or build you up. Knowing the difference is maturity and wisdom and that results in discernment of what to avoid and what to partake in.

This is a great topic and a timely one for me, as my studies of what I am working on are focused on this. Thanks for your posting. I know there are many here who are very knowledgable and I look forward to reading what your thoughts and experiences are.

-Scott M.
Frank Russell
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It is possible to connect with God when you are thinking. That is called communion. We should be in constant communion with him all of the time. To pray for someone or for yourself, it requires a certain way to pray or it just won't work. After the correct praying method, the request has been granted. It was granted by God before you said "Amen" but the next step is the receiver. If a prayer wasnt't answered, it was either because of the receiver's lack of faith or desire to claim their prayer or there is a negative spiritual hindrance. It was granted...without question...if it falls within the Word, but it is only received if the faith and desire is there.

Pastor Benny is a friend of mine. I don't want to drag any attention to myself concerning my friends. I have many celebrity friends as many of us probably do but I don't see them as celebrities because they are people just like us. To God be the Glory because Jesus is my very best friend. Anyway, I only of mention my friendship with Pastor Benny because he is part of the subject here and also because I know by first hand knowledge that his intentions are from the Spirit, not hypnosis. Like I said in a previous post, I can't read Benny's mind nor can I know his heart, but I do know that what he does is not hypnosis. That's all I will say about him since Scott asked to hold back comments supporting Benny Hinn.

It just dawned on me that this thread has become a religious defense for me. I don't want to bring myself or anybody else down. I am sorry if it's too late. I am not going to post any other thoughts here in this thread because I don't want to get anyone off of the subject of hypnosis. Religion is supposed to be life and hynosis is supposed to be therapy. Neither one should be entertainment and once you start playing with either one of these subjects, you stir up so much garbage in your life that it will make your life miserable. I have a great life and it had nothing to do with hypnosis. Like I said, I won't post here anymore nor will I return here to read anymore posts in this thread. I have rebuked the spirit of curiousity. haha. If anyone wants to chat, just PM me and I'll respond. God bless!
Scott M
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I meant to say that I will hold back my comments on supporting him, sorry for the confusion.

I don't want to make fun of anyone who follows their heart and calling regardless of wheather I agree with it or not, but to engage in healthy dialog.

I hope to stay on the topic without bashing someone...I guess it is hard to do though with the examples that show up to bash on youtube.

-Scott M
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Think about it. Study it. Religious experience being used by religious preachers is NOT Hypnosis? Any religion...

If they are the same techniques producing the same results, how are they not the same thing?

Because of anecdotal personal experiences? Because of literature written thousands of years ago that doesn't withstand scrutiny? Because of "Faith"?

Hmm...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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This reminds me of the two things that Magic has taught me, first, how easy it is to fool people, and second, how easily people fool themselves.

Really, some here should know better.......
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