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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic...at a moment's notice! » » Penn & Teller (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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I was a little less than impressed with the underwater special as well.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
daffydoug
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Quote:
On 2003-06-23 12:44, Ty Argo wrote:
Bill-
I can understand where you are coming from, but the way they "reveal" secrets is entirely planned to be ineffective. They "exposed" several sleights, then five minutes later fooled the entire audience with a routine using nothing but the sleights they just "revealed". They gave away the cups and balls so fast that nobody in that audience could tell you how it was done anyways. That was the idea! These revelations were planned to be non-revelations.

I say that if you're that worried about a stupid cross-cut force being seen on TV, learn a NEW FORCE! As far as P&T being worse than Valentino... come on.


Umm, That "Stupid" cross cut force is a staple in the reportoire of none less than Michael Close, as well as many other professionals of outstanding reputations.
When then did it become stupid? When did it become worthy of exposure? When did it become part of the current rejectamenta of magic? Perhaps when P&T decided it to be thus?
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Magic Spank
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I am not a fan of Penn and Teller.

Their bit gets old after 15 or 20 years. Surprisingly their suits never go out of style.

Penn has a picture in his house of Jesus on the cross. You see it as you first enter the house. But it's one of these pictures that is really composed of other things. And when you get very close to it you can see that it is made up of hardcore pornographic images. For anyone who remembers, there was a picture done like that of Johnny Depp for Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. (not porn though) Great concept but too confrontational for my taste. Mocking a religion seems juvenile at the least.

I heard that Penn and Teller took the money for that special even though they had nothing planned. Because they couldn't really provide the show they told the netowrk it was going to cost a LOT more, thinking they would say ok.. NO. The network surprised them and said OK.. YES! At some point during that crap submarine vanish Penn even says, "you can't take the money back now". Something like that. So, they did it for the money and magic suffers.

Here's a magic secret not many magicians know... The magicians we see on TV are only there because NOBODY ELSE TAPED A SHOW. David Blaine had a special in the can for the network. That makes it easy to get on tv. A lot of magicians talk about a special but basically NONE ever actually put one on tape and submit it to a network.

How do I know all this?????

Las Vegas Magic Club every wednesday night baby

Plus I'm a genius Smile

Rob
kid iowa
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Quote:
On 2003-06-23 23:29, Bill wrote:
Oh excuse me, I didn't realize that it's ok to expose magic, just as long as your being entertaining.

I don't think you advance magic at all by exposing the tricks, and making magic and magicians the butt of your jokes.

But like I said, this is my opinion. Smile


As I recall, Dai Vernon exposed the french drop in his cups and balls routine. Everyone still seems to be cool with him.
Any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile...can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction, "I served in the United States Navy." J.F.K.
Elliott Hodges
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I am a fan of penn and teller's style.
There cups and balls routine- very good skill wise.
And no the general public can't see how they do it even when they "tell" them.
But I remember the french bloke Etienne somebody doing a coin vanishing trick witrh three coins which he later told the audience were made of foil and then he lapped them after screwing them up.
He then repeated it with solid coins.
For that? He got chucked out the magic circle!!
And by the way Jay sankey also loves the Cross cut force and uses it a lot.
Elliott
adrianbent
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I grow tired often of "hardliners"... people who have absolute opinions, wether they be in politics, religion, or in this case magic. If one adopts the mantra: No exposure, never ever, no matter how small, no excuse!!! Then it becomes a short cut to thinking, they close their mind off, and they pass up many oppurtunities to grow.
Where it becomes a problem is when these ignorant policies hurts others; in this case - Teller, who feels alienated and "hates magicians" and with reason since there are those amongst us who are petty.
WHAT constitutes exposure? WHO decides? If the case is gray as is such here... why not give them the benefit of the doubt? Wouldn't that be the gentlemenly thing to do? It has been argued that their exposure isn't such since the audience is just as duped at the end. More importantly, the audience is entertained.
Penn and Teller are modern entertainers for a modern audience. I owe it to guys like this, and Harry Anderson, who brought magic out of black top hats, capes and canes and made it "street" - cons, scams and fun, in a modern fun kind of way. We owe it to them who keep magic alive and inspire new blood to continue on our wonderful craft. Not exposing magic is an ETHIC, not a RULE. It is something you feel and understand, and rationalize within your own value hierarchy. I don't expose magic, becuase I understand what would happen to "the greater good" as a result. I believe P&T understand this concept intimately. I believe a lot of good magicians do as well.
Jay Are
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Hey BILL, ever do a "SUCKER EFFECT"? Where you've exposed the "method" and shattered the illusion? Nuff said...
xxx
drkptrs1975
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I saw them on the West Wing last Year, good episode. Our Inteligence has expose a plot by China to attack the US, and then these Yo-Yo's are too worried about two Magicians who burn the Americian Flag at the White House.
teevtee
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Penn and Teller really fall into a unique catagory all by themselves. they are not strictly magicians nor comedians and they certainly are NOT expossing any true secrets.

I don't think anyone watches something like the cups and balls and thinks that true magic is happening. they think some fancy slieghts are being used. P&T quickly showing those slights is really just bringing attention to how much skill it takes so peopel appreciate it all that much more. If you watch balet you don't say "How does that guy jump so high? is it a trick?" you just appreciate his skill. With something liek cups and balls it is the same thing, you appreciate the skill, not so much the idea that it is true magic.

P&T also are very entertaining and are great debunkers of a lot of B.S. concerning psychics and so on. If you think they are truley exposing effects then you are missing the point.
doublelift
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Almost every big Casino or Amusement park has a magic shop that will expose any trick you can think of for who ever has the money. These customers aren't serious students of the art or members of S.A.M. or I.B.M. If you can buy a set of plastic cups for less than $10.00 with a explanation and routine whats the difference. My last trip to Vegas a ticket for P&T was $75.00. They don't expose anything you can't find on the internet or in a library book. Most people buy this kind of magic find out its not a self working miracle see that it takes work and practice and forget all about it. We all know how music is made but we still enjoy the performance.
Mark Randall
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I just don't get those of you who are taking an absolutist" position (saying "any exposing of any effect is wrong").

I guess by that measure the stale old trick where you stuff a silk into your hand and reveal that it's turned into a hollow wooden egg, then peel the "hole" off the egg and break it to show it's a real egg is also exposing the valuable "wooden egg" gaff.

I just don't think that it's valid to take a rigid position on this. It does matter what is being exposed and the way it's done. So it's case by case. So far, all of P & T's stuff has been totally fine by me.

--- Mark
Dynamike
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Quote:
On 2005-10-30 23:47, Dannydoyle wrote:

Second my arguement is that P&T don't really expose anything anyhow.



Danny, why do you argue on most of your post?
Dannydoyle
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Mike address the question as opposed to attacking me personally if it is not too much trouble for you ok?

If you have some sort of problem address it in a PM and spare the rest of the thread your silly barbs. None of them want to hear it. As a matter of fact I don't want to hear it either, I probably won't read the PM but it may make you feel better to write it anyhow.

A ponit to be considered is that any magic shop will sell you any trick or secret you want for the right price. We have been selling off our secrets for quite some time now. Almost any sponser on this site will sell you tricks with little knowlege if you are a magician or not.

To me this is worse than exposure, it borders on the oldest profession if you ask me.

Sorry if you feel that is an arguement Dynamike.
Then again anything that is different from what you think is an arguement aparantly
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dynamike
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I was not expecting you to loose your cool, Dan. Smile
Dannydoyle
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Then perhaps maybe you should think twice before posting sarcastic jabs at others?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dynamike
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Quote:
On 2006-01-23 23:29, Dannydoyle wrote:
Then perhaps maybe you should think twice before posting sarcastic jabs at others?


Don't take it serious, Dan. Relax, I'm just mentioning some easy comments. Feel better now? Smile
ronincyberpunk
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I like them for their immense entertainment value. They are amazingly entertaining to watch. And for those who say Teller never speaks, you simply don't notice it usually. As I recall he does some voiceover for their shows or something, but his voice is startling.

Revealing tricks or not, I enjoy their duo.
If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.
Godel
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I like their Showtime show also...
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2003-09-01 22:55, Jonathan Rice wrote:
My comment on P&T: I like Teller. The one who never talks. Smile


I remember The Simpsons;

PENN: (To Homer) I'm going to kill you!

TELLER: He's serious! I'm not the first Teller!
Quote:
On 2003-09-02 18:26, mattpuglisi wrote:
Teller is one of the most talented magicians in the world. Nuff said.


I liked his story in the "On The Road" book where he picks up a hitchhiker who's obviously functionally illilerate (more so than me for not knowing how to spell that) and rather than just drop him off at the exit actually takes him to his group home and does a magic trick for him (kid didn't understand what magic was) where he changed a scrap of newsprint into a twenty!

Quote:
On 2005-10-30 00:10, Bill wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-10-23 21:51, Gede Nibo wrote:
To hell with anyone who exposes magic in any way, shape, form...


Good Grief! You guys just make excuses for these jerks. Exposure is exposure. What's with the "yea, they expose magic. BUT THEY DO IT SO GOOD!" attitude? I heard nothing but complaining when the Masked Magician exposed secrets. So how come P & T get a pass? Isn't that being hypocritical?


So? Are we boycotting Mac King too?
Having said that; their belligerant (sp) attitude toward people's faith gets on my nerves.
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
Tyler_magic_skater
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I saw this forum was about Penn and Teller..... Just a little note, I did a benefit for Katrina Kids where Penn and Teller made I think a combined donation of 2500 dollars or so, something like that. We ended up raising around 13,500 dollars for the victims of Hurricane Katrina in the area... Major kudos to P&T!!!!
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