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Kontents New user 16 Posts |
Ok all things aside with the name.
Think about how this will effect Kelvin. He will market an effect and most likely Bobs trick will come up first do to its establishment in the magic circle if searched on. Kelvins fault for not thinking about that. To whine about it on a public forum instead of taking legal actions if it really effects you seems...unprofessional. Bob...why you got to spread your sadness over the net? http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbt......r=213105 Kostya Kimlats - Warning Daniel Garcia's - Warning Where is fight thread for this one? I haven't been in magic for a year yet and seeing this is discouraging... Go Peter! "I didn't copyright the word "Meltdown" What I did copyright was the phrase or title "Peter Loughran's Meltdown". " Bob did you copyright "Tsunami" or "Tsunami by Bob Farmer"? |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
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On 2010-01-13 17:49, Kontents wrote:... He can speak for himself directly. troll.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Kontents New user 16 Posts |
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On 2010-01-13 18:07, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Nice...your what? 40? troll.... really.. |
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truthteller Inner circle 2584 Posts |
Are we back to the 'other people make bad choices, so we should encourage everyone to continue to do the same' game?
Garcia's Warning was pulled from the marketplace and ostensibly should not produce consumer confusion (however, I agree that it will produce credit/research confusion and as such was a bad choice.) Second, neither 'warnings' have been established in the literature as thoroughly and for as many YEARS as Tsunami. We are back to the idea of naming a coin trick 'triumph'. It's a dumb idea. Finally, maybe Garcia/Ellusionist doesn't care. If I have a tv I'm planning on giving to goodwill and you come into my house and take it without permission, I may not care but that doesn't change the ethics behind your choice of taking without asking. Hiding behind rationalizations does not make something right. Tempest would be a viable name as I don't think that word has ever been used as a magic title. |
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Nico Zottos Elite user 486 Posts |
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On 2010-01-13 18:25, truthteller wrote: One of the best things ive heard in a while. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I was less fun when I was 40. But by the time I was 20 I knew better than to make claims of original discovery and to ask before showing stuff around.
And now back to Kelvin's Centigrade (or is it retrograde?)
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-01-13 12:29, Bob Farmer wrote: Kelvin Ng, now you now how Bob Farmer feels ( again ). Do the right thing and change the name of your effect. You've already have incurred bad karma by bringing truthteller and I into agreement on an issue. Don't hurt yourself further!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
It's important to note that Bob Farmers "Tsunami" isn't some Ellusionist "trick of the week", but rather a classic effect that's been marketed to magicians for over 20 years.
I seriously doubt any homework at all was done by Mr. Ng. If he didn't know about Tsunami before he named his effect, then he obviously didn't do his homework (this is one effect that isn't difficult to discover). Not doing your homework isn't a crime, but once your error is pointed out it's not at all difficult to do the right thing. If however, Mr. Ng did name the effect Tsunami knowing full well it was the name of Bob Farmers trick...........then his current stance makes perfect sense within the scope of his ethics. Either way, Mr. Ng's ethics are seriously lacking at the current time. Within a day or so you'll be solidly in damage control around not only your effect, but also your good name. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Did Kelvin say he named the trick in the first place? Maybe it was the marketing staff? Many truly creative folks (most I've met) are not so much on naming things so I figured it was the publisher that did it - not him.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
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On 2010-01-13 20:28, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Jonathan that may be true. Right now he has the option of changing the name or dissociating himself with the SM company because they refuse to do the right thing. To continue on his course of not changing the name only hurts him now and in the future. Every future release he announces will be brought back to this and the way he does business. He should look at the bigger picture.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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tabman Inner circle USA 5946 Posts |
Why not the Tidal Wave Project??
And yes, I know its not the same thing but the results are the same. I support Mr. Farmer and applaud his efforts to defend his Canadian Copyright. I was disappointed when I saw that D. Garcia had named an effect TORN when I had published something similar years earlier in The Magic Menu but people forget or don't want to remember or don't even know; yet a good name is a good name. Could be that this new Tsunami copped the name on purpose in an effort to get more sales too?? Will it matter in a hundred years??? To magicians; probably?
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...
http://Sefalaljia.com |
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tdowell Inner circle 1050 Posts |
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On 2010-01-13 11:08, Gilgamesh_The_Librarian wrote: Gilgamesh, You are perhaps the greatest magician in the world. In fact, you are also a libraian! WOW. I am so impressed with your analysis about library and magic! Gilgamesh, you are the magician's friend! Your analysis about magic and its relation to the library system is amazing! I don't know how you make your intelligent comments so meaningful and intelligent brother. Much like Truthteller's posts, people are impressed with you. Congratulations! I think I will cream my pants! Everytime you say something in your intellegent way, well, Gilgamesh, you have done it again. The Dewey Decimal system and magic creates somethin incomprehensible. Its like your three and Mommy brings you a Num Num! I know I am impressed! WOW! WHOO HOO! Gilgamesh, I can't even respond because your special magic library words go beyond common compehension. I love you Gilgamesh! Word up brother! Is this you? http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseac......00401134 |
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Gilgamesh_The_Librarian Elite user 408 Posts |
Thanks tdowell...your words mean a lot to me although I can't help feeling that they may be fuelled by a few too many frothy beveridges.
But thanks anyway. NB- Just as a side question I note from your profile that you are an attorney- not to denigrate the content and style of your post but how exactly does that work ? |
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Joe Mauro Inner circle 1133 Posts |
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On 2010-01-04 20:44, Joe Mauro wrote: Paypal contracted me: "We have concluded our investigation into your case and have decided in your favor. We were able to recover $10.00 USD and this amount has been credited to you". Will Tsai and his SM productionz company chose to not do the right thing and even tried to trick me into canceling the Paypal claim against them. As expected, Paypal found in my favor after they investigated. I tried to handle this privately, but they wouldn't listen. Thank you to those Caf� members that supported them returning my money. They also took Bob Farmers name from his long established trick "Tsunami" and used it for their new trick and refuse to do the right thing and change the name. At least we all know how they operate.
~Joe
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Kevinr Inner circle 1854 Posts |
Can we move on???
So when is this effect coming out? |
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bhayankaran Regular user India 146 Posts |
This thread would buy bad reputation to SM productionz.
I believe there are many people who have subscribed to their inner circle. Wish the issues are resolved...... Or else those subscribed wouldnt like.. My request to all...As Kevinr said lets move on and discuss the effect. Joe Mauro, you have had a hard time with them...Hope this doesn't happen again. How examinable is the set of cards? |
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Peter Loughran V.I.P. Ontario, Canada 2683 Posts |
I realize everyone would like to move on, but while still on this subject, here is another interesting read in regards to creators using same names and in this case it is my Entity, and I am not trying to bring up an old thread and me and Irish Ghost are friends and I have no issues with him in regards to this as I know it was un-intentional, but I find it very interesting that some of the views or opinions are different than the ones posted here even by some of the same posters in this thread, and I am trying to figure out why that is. Any view points would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=218 Best, Peter.
Brand New: - SNAKE BITE ILLUSION
www.masterofillusions.ca Follow me on Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/peter.loughran.9 Check out my new movie: www.plasterrockmovie.com www.globaluniversal.com Also visit: www.l2fireworks.com |
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Joe Mauro Inner circle 1133 Posts |
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On 2010-01-16 13:00, Kevinr wrote: Hi Kevinr! It has 'been out' since December. Kevinr, you feel it's ok that they took the name of Bob Farmers long term trick Tsunami( 1987 ) and refuse to change it? If someone stole from you and you complained, you'd be ok with someone telling you to 'move on'? Bob Farmer, an intellectual property lawyer from Canada, has stated that he has " both copyright and trade mark rights to the name "Tsunami" as it applies to card tricks ". So Kevinr, are you still interested in buying this trick with this cloud hanging over it or do ethics in magic mean nothing to you?
~Joe
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
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On 2010-01-16 13:27, Peter Loughran wrote: The reason it's different? Peter, that's easy: everyone loves and respects Bob Farmer. Don't feel bad, as it happens in all aspects of life. One attorney wins almost all his cases because he's gifted and charismatic. Another attorney looses almost all of his cases for the opposite reasons. GOD can be a cruel joke player sometimes! :sun:
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Gilgamesh_The_Librarian Elite user 408 Posts |
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On 2010-01-16 13:30, Joe Mauro wrote: Puts hand up meekly and states "Ethics in Magic" means nothing to me" Now don't get me wrong I do think there is a right or wrong way to do things and in this instance I think its poor form to take Bob Farmers title and change it slightly. However Bob says he has copyright on this and in that case a representation to Kevin privately might have been in best order. If he still had problems with Kevin after that then perhaps going public with his issue might have been one of the tactics he adopted and would be justified in doing so. This "ethics in magic" business though is a bit fishy to me and I am afraid that it just feels like the usual stick that cyber bullies can use to make themslves feel important and righteous. Bob has a *** good business reason for his concerns that I fully undertstand. The vast majority of others don't have that reason for comment and are just seeing the opportunity, as I said to bully others. Peter Loughrans link is interesting isn't it. It appears to my naive eyes that, when the shoe was on the other foot and someone better known than Kevin used an existing title, there were folk who didn't see it as a problem. "Ethics in Magic" is generally the tool of self-righteous bullies with ideas above their station. |
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