|
|
Go to page 1~2~3 [Next] | ||||||||||
Yiannis Veteran user Chicago USA 349 Posts |
Hello gang!
Happy New Year to everyone! Long time, no see! I've been away for awhile, but now I'm back and eager to spend sometime here again. Check out my new website: http://www.gamblingsleights.com You can find material on the most famous gambling sleights and how to perform them. Check also my youtube videos where I demonstrate how I perform these moves: Greek Deal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh8r1hmP5gk Bottom Deal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgT1aJd-khI Second Deal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IsdfXb0Aq4 Don't forget to comment and rate!! Best, Yiannis |
|||||||||
stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Great work! I really mean that, too.
|
|||||||||
awimagic New user 96 Posts |
Great work no doubt about it ...
please forgive my question(s) to you but I notice that you don't move your thumb while doing the second deal but in the bottom deal you have nice left thumb action. even if the thumb is moving during the second deal it gets masked by the movement of the left hand ( bigger action hides the smaller principle ). also when you do the second deal don't you position the deck so that the top of the deck is not visible ? I don't mean an extreme neck tie but just enough to kill the flashes. now a days everybody objects to the erdnase grip for bottom deal. have you tried experimenting with other grips ? perhaps you do explain the reasons in your notes and may not be at liberty to discuss them here. p.s. this post has noob written all over it... so sorry in advance. |
|||||||||
acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Fanfreakingtastic.......Some of the best I have ever seen.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
|
|||||||||
Yiannis Veteran user Chicago USA 349 Posts |
Awimagic,
this second deal that I demonstrate on the video is Walter Scott's. In this particular deal, the thumb is motionless because the brief is so minescule! That's one of the characteristics of this particular second deal type. Some say it's not deceptive, some say it is... In my opinion, unless you cheat in card games for real, you cannot really know what works or not. Having said that, Doc uses the same type of deal in his games. Furthemore, I believe that if the company you play with doesn't have an idea that you use a second deal, it doesn't really matter if you "necktie" the deck or not. In my video I hold the deck in that way on purpose, to demonstrate the brief and all the specific characteristics of Walter Scott's deal. As far as the Erdnase grip is conserned - a modified version of it actually - I believe I'm in good company as Steve Forte, Mr. Z and others use the same grip in the Bottom Deal. I can use other grips as well, but I prefer Erdnase's grip because it feels natural in my hands. I hope this helps Guys, thank you for your comments! |
|||||||||
v1rty03 New user Ukranian 18 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-01-13 10:27, Yiannis wrote: Great work! Do you have this video? |
|||||||||
silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
Just to clarify for Awimagic, Walter Scott designed his deal with a stationary thumb......it's not ever supposed to move.
There are advantages to the deal (no moving top card to screw with), and there are disadvantages to the deal (no optical effect of a moving top card). Learning this deal will help all your second deals, as the Walter Scott teaches you to use the most miniscule of briefs.........something that might also benefit most other strike seconds. Yiannis's notes are the best I've seen on learning the Walter Scott deal. |
|||||||||
awimagic New user 96 Posts |
Thank you Yiannis and Silverking for the reply and the explanation
|
|||||||||
AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Well, I'm probably gonna be the ugly little duck but...
Your second deal is probably as closed as Mr Scott has described it but, for me, there's no illusion at all. Staring at the top card it's obvious you're dealing the second one. I understand it took a lot of work to deal that way and the end result is really nice looking but I'm afraid you'll fool no one around a card table where old timers are playing. Probably an impressive deal for magical gambling demos though. Again, nice work, but no deception. My 2 cents. |
|||||||||
Maitre D Veteran user 339 Posts |
I'll have to agree with AMcD.
|
|||||||||
Yiannis Veteran user Chicago USA 349 Posts |
AMcD,
this particular second deal is the subject of controversy regarding its deceptiveness. I believe that if you KNOW what to look for, NO technique regardless of how good it is can pass undetected. As you are probably aware, Walter Scott was NOT a magician but a real time hustler who used this EXACT technique under fire. So, if this worked for Scott it would probably work for someone who has mastered it. By the way, Doc is also using the same technique in his game. Therefore, my opinion is that this deal can be as deceptive as any other technique out there. But again, my notes and the video are not supposed to make anyone a hustler. I'm educating the willing to learn a very impressive skill. Cheers for voicing your thoughts! |
|||||||||
Maitre D Veteran user 339 Posts |
I've seen some pretty awful techniques done by cheats, so just because it's been done by a cheat doesn't really give it much credibility alone. Also, I've seen more deceptive techniques for second dealing than this, so I'm not sure why anyone would want to settle on practicing something so second-rate. Sure, it's impressive to deal from a microscopic brief, but that's about as far as this technique goes in terms of applicability.
|
|||||||||
AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Yannis,
Hey, I know who the Phantom was! It's said he had impressive skills, the best card cheat ever they say in Britland's book... Why not? I've got no proof it worked for Scott. If I remember well he was more a musician than a professional hustler and he fancied to fool magicians too. I know also that all this story was more or less something made to tease Vernon as you should know if you read other books. I don't really care whether he was the best ever or not. He was impressive, so what? What I care about is true gambling. Under fire? Depends the context pal! I can bet you 100% sure you won't fool the drunkers I'm playing with in some pubs here (UK). They drink a lot, trust me, you can sometimes stack under their very nose just picking up the last hand! But dealing with the top card not moving??? In your dreams man, in your dreams... As usual, context is everything. But please, don't think that players are always gullible, stupid and blind. Fancy moves are not really in use around the tables. At least, the ones I play. OK, once in a while, you may come across old timers unable to shuffle the proper way but you won't cheat'em that easily, trust me. Again, nice work and if Silverking says your booklet is the best on the subject, I don't even have to doubt about it, sure it is. But I don't consider your SD that deceptive, that's all. About Doc, well, like Z and few others he's a master. There's nothing to say about masters. I strongly doubt he keeps the top card not moving anyway... |
|||||||||
kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1868 Posts |
To say that doc uses it doesn't give it much more credence to me.
I would agree you are correct with "I believe that if you KNOW what to look for, NO technique regardless of how good it is can pass undetected. "-although I am sure we have all been fooled once or twice. Better than I, but the slow-mo of the seconds was less than deceptive. Just my 2 cents
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
|||||||||
Yiannis Veteran user Chicago USA 349 Posts |
This talk about its deceptiveness has always been an issue, mostly amongst magicians. I chose to master this technique, primarily because it was invented and used by a hustler (it is a working second) and because it is so *** impressive for demonstrations.
Walter Scott's second deal is a wonderfull technique used in real time gambling by its inventor and it is used contemporary in hustling and magic as well. A brief list of cardmen who use this kind of briefless deal in their work: Darwin Ortiz, Richard Turner, Martin Nash, Damien Neiman, Jason England, Doc to name a few. I believe I'm in good company |
|||||||||
Maitre D Veteran user 339 Posts |
Unless you've personally witnessed those men move during a game, then you can't dare vouch for what they use in their work. There's a tremendous difference between a demo technique and the real work. I too have serious doubts that Doc uses this technique.
Quote:
On 2010-01-17 15:16, Yiannis wrote: Exactly. Magicians are trying to pass this technique off as something legitimate when it's not. Sorry, but a 2 and a half minute long video of dealing seconds into a pile with a microscopic brief has "MAGICIAN" written all over it. I don't mean it in a bad way, it's just you're trying to pass it off as something it's really not. Just keeping it real. |
|||||||||
AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Quote:
Walter Scott's second deal is a wonderfull technique used in real time gambling by its inventor. Have you got any piece of evidence about that? Quote:
Darwin Ortiz, As far as I know, none of them are cheats. To go further, I doubt Mister Turner would recommend any strike method as, in one of his DVDs, he calls strike dealers beginners... The only one being a hustler is Doc. A master of the punch. But, again, I doubt he deals strikes using such a tiny brief. Tiny briefs, static thumb, noise and so on are magician myths. Deceptiveness, naturalness and conformity to the house rules are the main stuff players care about. |
|||||||||
silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
Don't bother yourselves with the Scott deal if it doesn't ring your bell..........lifes short.
Easy. |
|||||||||
Yiannis Veteran user Chicago USA 349 Posts |
Nicely said Silver
|
|||||||||
Mr. Z Special user 818 Posts |
I liked the deals Yiannis.
I am personally not a fan of fine-brief seconds but that doesn't mean they can't be done deceptively. Aside from the names Yiannis mentioned, David Malek also favors a fine brief. Whether or not it can be used to cheat is quite irrelevant--if it's been used then that's proof enough. "The real work" often pales in comparison to the sleight of hand used by magicians. Six-figure scores have been won with moves all of you would spit at. Timing and psychology are far more important than sleight of hand skill. Magicians decry neck-tying the deck but no more money was stolen with a second deal (strikes, mostly) than in the form of bust-out dealers whacking out the players at casino 21, standing and holding the deck at eye level. Deuces aren't a great move for poker. Now, that's not an excuse to settle for sub-par work, but give the guy a break. Yiannis has obviously put some time into his false deals, and they deserve some respect.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Gambling Sleights (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page 1~2~3 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.03 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |