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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Multiplying Ball Angles (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Tony Thomas
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I'm enjoying the Levent Ultimate Guide to the Billiard Balls DVD.

I have a pretty good routine that I worked out about a year ago, but my biggest problem with the multiplying balls relate to angles. This issue keeps me from performing the effect in almost every situation in which I perform. Does anyone have some ideas and tips for dealing with the angle issue. Do you ever use your other hand as a shield? Do you keep the balls close to your body? Other ideas? Levent, of course, described "cupping".

Also, what is your rule of thumb about the outer most angle alowable in the audience? In other words, if you can control the rooms set up. What is your guidance as to the type of environment that will allow use of the multiplying balls.

For me, I feel like it must be 25 degrees or better from center in each direction. If it is greater than that, I feel like I am flashing. Maybe some techniqe can help me improve the allowable anglel? What is the allowable angel for you to feel comfortable performing the multiplying ball routine.

Levent - I hope you comment on this question...
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Eddie Torres
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You can solve a lot of the angle issues by holding the balls infront of you with the palm of your hands facing you. Obviously this won't work with all the moves you're going to be doing but if you can find reasons to get into that position after you've done your moves you're going to have a much easier time dealing with angles.
Eddie Ivan Torres
JNeal
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Reputedly, Cardini 'evolved' his routine from what he did in theatres to work in nearly surroundable conditions on nightclub floors...if you can believe what George Boston wrote in "insde Magic'. I suspect the superlative misdirective skills of Cardini would be more than sufficient to compensate for difficult angles.

Alan Wakeling (who used Benson's cupping techniques as well) told me that when the angles were bad for the billiards, he would insist on working in a spotlight ONLY. This meant that the balls were illuminated only from the front..and half of each ball was in shadow (like the dark side of the moon). So that the spectators could only see half of each ball.....and that eliminated any problems with a shell!
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Tony Thomas
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That's good guys. Thanks. You know when I started this post, I thought I had basically made it through the whole of Levent's DVD's, but then he has a surprise ending under "Message" and I got a whole lot more. Thank you Levent. He spoke about the lighting issue that JNeal commented on. I believe this will make a significant difference in the allowable angle.
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Darkwing
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JNeal,

How fortuntate you were to be able to know Mr. Wakeling. He is one of the real geniuses of modern magic. I love his artistic approach to all of his routines.

Along with his fan routine, one of my favorite of his routines is his approach to billiard balls. Very elegant.

As for lighting, I think Levent mentioned the lighting technique in his excellent billiard ball DVD. Very good advice. I really appreciate all the interaction with what I consider some of the best minds in magic here on the Magic Café.

I'm a kid in a candy store or a magic shop.

Excellent.

David Williams
Anatole
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When I did my interlocked ball routine back in the 60's, I remember being surprised that my mentor--Earl Edwards--expressed amazement that even standing immediately stage left where he worked the curtains, he couldn't see the balls until they appeared at the fingertips. This is probably because the arms are held horizontally directly in line with the hands and conceal the balls until the hands separate--an unexpected bonus of the interlocked hands production. I would guess the same would be true of the interlocked card productions, that people even at the extreme left and right don't see anything because the arms, hands and body provide a 360-degree cover.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
Levent
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Hi Tony:

Good answers from all.

JNeal is correct, Dick Cardini did work out his ball routine to work 3/4 surrounded in nightclubs. I believe this was done by combining the spotlight and by eliminating moves that have angle problems. In his case this would mean he would do only the first half of his routine (with the yellow, blue, green and orange balls).

When I work in bad angle situations like comedy clubs, I avoid the tough moves, I simplify the routine and concentrate on the production of the solid balls in my left hand to provide misdirection so that the audience does not pay attention to the gimmicks in the right hand.

Best of Luck,
Levent
http://www.LeventMagic.com
Darkwing
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Quote:
On 2010-01-16 13:48, Anatole wrote:
When I did my interlocked ball routine back in the 60's, I remember being surprised that my mentor--Earl Edwards--expressed amazement that even standing immediately stage left where he worked the curtains, he couldn't see the balls until they appeared at the fingertips. This is probably because the arms are held horizontally directly in line with the hands and conceal the balls until the hands separate--an unexpected bonus of the interlocked hands production. I would guess the same would be true of the interlocked card productions, that people even at the extreme left and right don't see anything because the arms, hands and body provide a 360-degree cover.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez


Sonny,

You are correct. When I do the interlocked card productions at our club shows, members of the club who are back stage as part of the tech crew still ask how I do the interlock production. The position of the arms do help with the angles. As a side note, doing the perfect card production close to the body helps with angles also, but that is another subject.

David
Darkwing
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Quote:
On 2010-01-16 14:22, Levent wrote:
Hi Tony:

Good answers from all.

JNeal is correct, Dick Cardini did work out his ball routine to work 3/4 surrounded in nightclubs. I believe this was done by combining the spotlight and by eliminating moves that have angle problems. In his case this would mean he would do only the first half of his routine (with the yellow, blue, green and orange balls).

When I work in bad angle situations like comedy clubs, I avoid the tough moves, I simplify the routine and concentrate on the production of the solid balls in my left hand to provide misdirection so that the audience does not pay attention to the gimmicks in the right hand.

Best of Luck,
Levent
http://www.LeventMagic.com


Levent,

You hit on a very important point about misdirection in billiard ball productions. By doing the productions in the left hand you are helping to take heat off the gimmick. Good lesson.

David
travisb
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If you're willing to do something "incorrect" for the sake of angles, I've found it does help to drop the right hand--the "rack" hand--to one's side. The balls go out of frame, and the hand below the coat is certainly more suspicious, but it does help with the angles and it can help throw the focus more strongly on the producing hand.

I wouldn't recommend this approach--I think it's bad--but it has helped me adapt to a nasty angle situation a couple of times (people unexpectedly moving into a bad angle spot).

-Travis
JNeal
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Darkwing!

I have many fond memories of times spent with Alan Wakeling.

One unusual thing about him was that he had a way of posing or moving when 'miming' a trick, that was so involving...that it made you want to go home and start working on that rick immediately. Similarly, when I'd ask Marvyn Roy about a bit or performer, he shared this same way of 'acting out' the handling of it. I could never tell if Marvyn was imitating Alan or vice versa...it's like they shared a common technique. Being best friends, it was sometimes tough to say where one began and the other took over.
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JamesinLA
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Jonathan,
They were performing partners for a time weren't they?

Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
JNeal
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Yes during college days they did an act called the "Ringmasters" at a club here in LA. Marvyn said when they got the booking they asked about salary and the owner or manager said ..."Well, it's whatever you get in tips for parking cars!" So they parked cars!
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Tony Thomas
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I was messing around with the multiplying balls more tonight, and it appears to me that pointing your fingers Northward (up), rather than vertically, while you produce a ball fromt he s****, is a way to add more cover. In this position your thumb and first finger protect each side angle.
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eshdath
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In one of Al Leech's books he discribes a magician he saw as a kid that held the s**** between his middle and ring fingers, and with the palm facing the audience. In this way you have two or three fingers on each side, or balls on each at all times during the routine. It also forces you to hold the balls upward.
Zion speaks......are you listening?
Tony Thomas
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Eshdath - Yes. I was fiddling with that as well. Except I was holding it between my middle and first finger. It is totally protected, but certainly much harder to manipulate. Is this a common method? Is anyone out there holding the s**** in this manner?
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Tony Thomas
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