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ElliottB Inner circle 3250 Posts 
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So, I started reading the first effect again, and I am having some problems.
Without going into detail, some of the methodology deals with the careful use of language and the emphasis of certain words in order to influence a spectator’s decision. To reiterate...the method itself is the careful use of language. However, the provided patter sounded off to me. I can’t tell if it’s bad writing, if something was lost in translation, or if it is supposed to be that way. What does “now think what you do think it HIT up, HEADS or tails” mean, and how will it influence anyone about anything, other than convincing them of my inability to communicate? I hate to disagree with some of the biggest names in the industry, but I am starting to regret my purchase. I should point out that I emailed the author about the countless errors, and he wrote back that he was fully aware of them on publication, and that is why he only charged $10. I guess $10 is nothing to some, but I could have bought a lot of good things with my $10. |
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dmoses Inner circle 2261 Posts
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Although I didn't react quite so strongly as elliott I did have the same feeling.
Sadly, it makes me hesitate making another purchase of-- let's say-- Telenefesch which would be a greater investment. I'm willing to put up with occasional bad spelling and errors as my library of Luke Jermay work will attest-- however there's no "Touched on Hoy" here. What's original isn't practical and what's practical isn't original. ...and thanks Paolo for reminding me of that secret cue-- I assume we have the same mutual friend-- who though named, remains nameless.
"You're a comedian. You wanna do mankind a service, tell funnier jokes."
TPR by Dave Moses and Iain Dunford T-shirts for Magicians and Mentalists |
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Paul Brook Special user UK 887 Posts
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OK, my thoughts:
I found the language issue to be quite bad, however, if you apply a little thinking as to how you personally would perform the effect then you can come up with the patter yourself. That being said, why bother writing a substandard (language translation) presentation, instead of placing down a bullet pointed method? [that's rhetorical folks] Now I also have to agree with dmoses, the things that are practical in this book from a workers point of view have been done before, and in some instances require crediting. The things that are new are in some ways not practical at all. Or only possible to perform in an informal setting. I would say that if you are buying this book as a working pro and looking to add something to your material then this is not a book for you. All being said and done it is $10, and to be honest I bought the eBook to discover what the coin routine was all about. I bought it, I read it and I now know. So for me it was $10 to satisfy my curiosity and shut it up, and that it did! Cheers, -Paul
PAUL BROOK
He Knows Shop - All of my mentalism books, PDFs and props 
Certified Mentalism A beautifully illustrated hardback book full of real world mentalism 
FREE MENTALISM Free hard-hitting effects, routines and methods, just a click away 
MAGIC TV INTERVIEW An deep dive interview with Craig Petty, nothing held back! 
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-01-28 00:20, dmoses wrote: Dave, Eh! Eh! Eh! ... And... Elliott, I don't know who the big names in the industry you mention are but - I can see your point and I'm not sure we are disagreeing on the whole. I have some bias toward one "weapon" used because I came up with dozens of ways to use that little thing (except those ones mentioned in Nefesch book) but I have opnely stated that upfront. I also think that I will probably never use the routines in the book anyway - so to me the "off" language patterns" and such are not an issue. Other than that - because my books were also generously sprinkled with errors (and I'm not justifying Nefesch here) I am not the ideal person to be the first to cast the stone.
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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bobser Inner circle 4179 Posts
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He probably meant me.
Anyway, I simply have to agree with every single thing that Paul Brooke said to the finest detail. However, with my curiosity satisfied, I wish the young lad nothing but the very best in all his endevours in the future. bobser.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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PsiDroid Inner circle 2164 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-01-28 10:14, bobser wrote: if elliott meant you then he must go to have his cognitive functions checked up : I just got this and I'm going to read it then ill report back my thoughts |
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Titanas V.I.P. 1995 Posts
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Someone's garbadge can be someone else's gold.
Saying that, I didn't find anything impractical in this specific ebook. I didn't know that someone need to create new principles in order to make something worth buying it. To be honest, I have most of the posters above works and can't tell that I ve found EVEN one new original principle but I found amazing combinations of well known principles that can create great effects. Now about the language issues, I spoke with Nefesch earlier today and he told me that he will have a professionaly edited version soon and that he will send it to all that guys that purchased the booklet. Bests, Titanas
Product Developer @ Murphys Magic Supplies
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Paul Brook Special user UK 887 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-01-28 10:14, bobser wrote: LANGUAGE ERROR: It's Brook 
PAUL BROOK
He Knows Shop - All of my mentalism books, PDFs and props
Certified Mentalism A beautifully illustrated hardback book full of real world mentalism
FREE MENTALISM Free hard-hitting effects, routines and methods, just a click away
MAGIC TV INTERVIEW An deep dive interview with Craig Petty, nothing held back!
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bobser Inner circle 4179 Posts
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Sorry Pol, (I don't know where to get the smiley face thingy's) Anyway, sorry Mr. Brook.
Psidroid, apart from seriously needing to get your sense of humour checked you've always been a bit of a nob, so go fetch (did I spell that correcly?) (Y'see, even more humour you never got). Titanas I don't think anyone in here has given Nefesch a hard time and for what it's worth I don't think anyone has lied or treated him unfairly. Like you, they have opinions, and since they've spent their money, that allows them to express those opinions. Might I just add that if anyone put a heading on their new product that: 'Someone's garbage can be someone else's gold' that would very probaly be the worst marketing procedure ever used. However I understand and accept your meaning. bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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Titanas V.I.P. 1995 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-01-28 10:40, bobser wrote: that's all I did too, I just expressed my opinions.
Product Developer @ Murphys Magic Supplies
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PsiDroid Inner circle 2164 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-01-28 10:40, bobser wrote: so old dog you keep on with your humour while negating others to do the same ?? how hypocrite are you Quote:
On 2010-01-28 10:26, Titanas wrote: then you know more mentalism than anybody else here: frankly in some Cavalli book ive found new ideas and in Bresler switchcraft ive found switches id never thought of and that bring me to nefesch book: I like what ive read so no complaining from me: the typos: no offense to nefesch but Id rather buy a book full of typos if the ideas are up to the level of Finley;Cavalli;Arce;Osterlind;Weber. but Nefesch ideas which I said I like are NOT even close to that level |
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ElliottB Inner circle 3250 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-01-28 10:26, Titanas wrote: People bought a book and they were not entirely satisfied. They posted their thoughts in a very reasonable manner, and Titanas responds with a little (patently false) personal attack at the works of all of the posters. In a vacuum, it doesn’t make sense to me. Titanas, do you have some sort of business or personal relationship with the author? Did you pay for your copy of the e-book? |
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts
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Quote: Elliott,
On 2010-01-28 17:30, ElliottB wrote: It's a PERSONAL relationship. Let's just say that a few months ago, both of them did fly to Spain to......... Trust me, you don't really want to know details about this! :lol:
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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ElliottB Inner circle 3250 Posts
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Yeah. This is one reason why, these days, I rarely speak my mind about magic/mentalism products I purchase.
I posted my honest thoughts about a product I bought, which the author agreed with in writing (I have the email.) Then, Titanas, who I doubt is an independent party, shows up with a small, yet ridiculously untrue, attack on my work – perhaps a veiled threat of more to come from Titanas and friends(I guess I'll find out.) I think I will need to go back to keeping my thoughts to myself, just like I almost always do. Elliott PS. I own two of Paul's works, and there are tons of great new ideas. |
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Titanas V.I.P. 1995 Posts
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Due to respect to Nefesch book,
I will not post anymore on this thread. If someone thinks that is having a go on me, please let's transfer this to pm's. Bests and out, Titanas p.s: I have no financial relationship with this project and I have paid for my copy.
Product Developer @ Murphys Magic Supplies
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ElliottB Inner circle 3250 Posts
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http://www.titanasmagic.com/shop.html
I believe you. However, a small amount of research revealed that you sell six of the author’s DVD’s, one of his e-books, and 5 of his instant video downloads. You seem to have left that part out. Earlier, I wondered about the motivation for your fallacious attack on my work, as well as Paul's work. Now, I no longer wonder. |
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts
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Guys,
I thought the LOL face in my above post was self-explaining. I was joking about Titanas and Nefesch personal relationship...
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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Perseus Arkomanis Loyal user 208 Posts
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Greetings people...
I'm writing these words as a friend of all of you and as a friend of magic and mentalism. I posted this thread to hear your thoughts on Nefesch's book. Some liked it...others didn't. But posting personal attacks isn't very polite guys. Titanas mentioned the works of other posters (without mentioning any names) as a response to a harsh comment on the book and he did it very politely by saying that he found "amazing effects" etc. I can't get why you guys suddently attack him and above all I don't get why ElliottB posted Titanas's store over here??? Titanas has released dvds for Nefesch but as he said he did NOT had any financial relationship with THIS project... Now,for the grammar and spelling of the book itself... I also had a bit of a nack getting what the author meant but I worked my way out of it. I'm glad that he desided to release an updated version to all of us.Good call Nef! Best wishes always De'Mon
The things that are most real to me are the illusions which I create...everything else is quicksand...
<BR> <BR>www.orionmagicproductions.com |
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ElliottB Inner circle 3250 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-01-28 19:51, demonmagic wrote: Oh please. Don’t try to spin this like I came here and attacked Titanas. I commented on a book I bought. Everything I wrote was 100% true, and the author agreed with me in writing, and that is why he is now having the book edited – something that should have been done before publication. Then Titanas shows up, posing as an independent party, and takes untrue shots at everyone who had anything negative to say about his undisclosed business partner’s product. It was perfectly clear who he was talking about. Are we supposed to just accept Titanas’s false claims about our works, and not respond? |
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ElliottB Inner circle 3250 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-01-28 19:51, demonmagic wrote: I posted the link to the store, because someone came here, out of the blue, and falsely attacked me and several others. There was no logical explanation. However, a little research revealed a very logical explanation, after all. How is posting a link to someone’s store a terrible attack? Interestingly, it was your post, the one where you started this thread, that got me to part with my ten dollars. Oddly, there is no mention in your post of spelling and grammar - the figurative big gorillas in the room. If I only noticed that your very first post at the Café was about this e-book, and that most of your other substantive posts were also about this e-book, I might have saved myself the $10. |
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Posted: Jan 28, 2010 03:32 am 
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