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pwolverine Regular user Melbourne, Australia 112 Posts 
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On 2010-02-09 19:12, MaxfieldsMagic wrote: I personally don't see it that way. Perhaps if you are a very visual learner you, and you already know the moves you may find it easier then someone that doesn't. I found that with the total silent instructional videos Coin 1 achieved its purpose, and was very clear in the instructions. I personally don't find Sick to be anywhere near the same league. I think its a poor instructional video that could have been finished and polished much better. Everyone has their own opinions on this, and this is mine. I also see that its more flashy for the camera, and not as applicable in real life. Also my opinion, I'm more then happy for anyone to prove me wrong and do it in a live situation to see if it really does come off as good as it appears on the screen. As for correcting my grammar, I didn't realise we were that picky around here. I was rushing as I had a class to teach, and if we really want to be specific lets look at teaching pedagogy - take someone like Howard Gardner from Harvard University who divides learners into distinct categories - which we each fall into in varying degrees. You have Visual-Spatial, Body-Kinesthetic, Musical, Interpersonal, Intrapersonal, Linguistic and Logical-Mathematic areas.. also now being researched into a spiritual/naturist dimension. For me, I'm not a total Visual Learner, I need more input for my learning style. Which is what I am referring to. Perhaps you are a very visual learner and don't have any problems interpreting the DVD which is totally visual. However, the world isn't only like you, and there are other people that learn differently and through different styles. For me, this style isn't as good as others I have seen that are similar (ala Coin 1/2) and should be taken as my opinion amongst the others here. I'd personally rather have a range of opinions stating how they feel and get as much information before purchasing a title that I can. I don't think he spoon-feeds anything and he does some things better then others in the disc. This title got so much hype over the trailers, lets see if it stands the test of time and anyone actually uses it in a real live situation other then Ponta himself. |
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pwolverine Regular user Melbourne, Australia 112 Posts
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One more thing about this DVD. To say the instructions are easy to understand is a real understatement. Unless you are really familiar with all the moves there will be some research you will need to do. I can do the muscle pass quite well, but in the DVD to say "Kainoa Harbottle's 'Fingertip Musclepass' " and leave it at that, with one slow motion example to me isn't teaching anything. Its a nice thing to watch, but with no real instruction be prepared to do some research and possibly expect other purchases to learn all the moves.
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Joaquin Veteran user 329 Posts
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This DVD is not for the general population with different ways of learning. It is for coin experts with extensive knowledge on sleight of hand.
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pwolverine Regular user Melbourne, Australia 112 Posts
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Joaquin, I think you have missed my point. Even coin experts learn in different ways. Just because someone is good at coins doesn't mean they all learn the same way. This was also just a response to the grammatical criticism which I didn't think was necessary.
But that was a little side issue, it doesn't take away from the point that I don't think this style of video was made in a productive way to allow people to learn the slights accurately and with some depth. Its very superficial, the lack of any verbal explanation brings it down greatly. At least with Coin one you had more notes and graphics on the screen explaining the sleights. This one doesn't, perhaps Ponta shouldn't have been the writer, editor, director and all the other roles in the creation of the film. Perhaps having some extra people giving their opinion would make it more valid. Simply saying "Kainoa Harbottle's 'Fingertip Musclepass' " isn't explaining the sleight at all used, and requires you to then go purchase and research other moves. He also uses it at one point and there isn't the subtitle included to display it. I still really think this is a very poor teaching DVD. I'd like to see some expert coin people use it practically in front of an audience. Why isn't there any live demonstrations on the disc? Is it just not practical in a live situation, and only really good for youtube or in front of a camera? Ellusionist isn't also marketing it as a DVD for coin experts, so we will see many amateurs purchasing it and possibly being disappointed. Like I said previously, lets wait and see if anyone comes out and shows us that they have learnt the routine DIRECTLY from the DVD and can then apply it in real life situations. |
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Douglas Lippert Inner circle E Pluribus Unum 2343 Posts
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On 2010-02-10 17:36, pwolverine wrote: It's very easy to find out yourself if the routines will work in the real world. Perform them.
Douglas Lippert
Former I.B.M. Ring #8 Secretary |
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Strange Tasting Fish Sticks 1988 - 2013 The Big Brother is watching you 1095 Posts
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I thought the instruciton was very clear. I'm an intermediate coin worker. I do agree it kind of sucks not being taught the different moves, and I purchased homer liwag's coin one myself to learn the flash production in tenaki pennies and 3 coins across. I also got the finger tip muscle pass DVD and sent curtis kam a PM, who invented it. Very helpful fellow. Now it's really not that difficult.
I don't see why the routines couldn't be performed in real world. The only bad angle one is the coin vanish. Directly behind you the angles are bad. That's it. All the other effects would seem to work in the real world. Granted, I've been practicing the vanish 2 weeks+ now and agree with ponta it is the hardest routine. It's still not nowhere near performance level but I am improving. Ponta gets asked to see the vanish often, and shows it to his magician friends. He doesn't show it to layman because he cannot do it perfect every time. He told me if you can do it perfect everytime then you can show it to laymen. I suppose this effect is the exception. All of the tricks seem pretty real world, in my opinion. I see where you're coming from though. |
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-02-10 17:36, pwolverine wrote: Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that. This isn't rocket science - it's simply a tutorial on moving coins around with your hands to create magical effects. Ponta shows you how to do that from different angles and at different speeds. Seems more than sufficient, IMO. I'd rather have a silent DVD with blockbuster effects (which I believe this is) than a DVD with detailed narration but less spectacular effects (already have plenty of those...). When someone says, "OK, now we slide the coin out of Down's palm and pop it up with the thumb," does that really help you accomplish the effect any better than simply watching someone do it slowly and clearly? You have to make a special allowance for Ponta when it comes to narration, anyway, as English is not his native language. This was a way for him to share with the entire world, rather than waiting to translate the project into twenty or more languages. It would, however, be nice if he could memorialize all of this in a book someday and really dig into the thinking behind the moves. But if this is all we get, I for one am grateful for the knowledge.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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pwolverine Regular user Melbourne, Australia 112 Posts
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I'd also think of it this way. If you went to a magic lecture to learn new things, and the person stood on the stage, with a close up being on screen behind them and simply didn't talk, but did the moves over and over. Would you be satisfied with that lecture? I know personally I wouldn't be. I think these kind of things are all about subtleties that occur within the moves and the routine. I don't think you can really get any subtleties out of this type of silent film.
This is one of those debates that's simply varying opinions. Personally I find many other methods much better then this one for learning routines. When looking for new titles I'd also rather have a large range of opinions stating why things are good or bad to then make up my own mind when purchasing a title. Both these points of view are valid, and I'd hope it owuld help someone making a decision about the title to have a little bit ore information. |
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Douglas Lippert Inner circle E Pluribus Unum 2343 Posts
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Seeing has how the creator and producer are Japanese and speak little English..you can't expect English instructions. Puzzling as to why he didn't speak in Japanese though.
Douglas Lippert
Former I.B.M. Ring #8 Secretary |
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts
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OK, after watching this a few more times, I can see where you're coming from, Pwolverine, on a couple of sections. There are a few moves that go by pretty quickly and aren't as clear as others.
If you don't have something like it already, you might want to try using a DVD loop program such as "Ultimate DVD Player" (download at http://www.ronimusic.com/ ), to slow down and loop challenging moves. It can really help clarify some of the subtleties.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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Miraclemakers Special user INA 685 Posts
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I've just watched this DVD, for me.....it's absolutely not for beginner, there is so many advance sleight of hand technique inside this DVD.
One of the best coin routine and sleight of hand in my opinion..... |
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts
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I've been working on the Spellbound routine since receiving the DVD - what a great routine! The angles on it really aren't bad at all, as long as you don't have people behind you, as with most Spellbound routines. Watching the crispness and precision with which Ponta performs this - while always appearing relaxed - is really inspirational.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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Astone New user 54 Posts
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Well, the sleight of hands used in most of the routines shouldn't be considered as "advanced", they are mostly well known sleights done perfectly and at a really fast pace
Pierre |
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts
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Right - it's mostly about smooth sequencing, rhythm and precise execution, although there are a few truly tough sleights on the DVD, such as the coin vanish.
My problem so far with the Spellbound routine is that I have the basic moves and transitions memorized, but none of it looks nearly as magical as Ponta's performance, although the initial three changes are starting to look pretty good. Each day I'll concentrate on one small sequence and drill it, while experimenting with slightly different positions to find the sweet spots. It's getting better, but it's going to be a long time before the illusion of a single coin morphing repeatedly is convincing throughout. This is really fun stuff to practice, though.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts
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Is anyone working on the Winged Silver routine?
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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Mike Rozek New user 20 Posts
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TheCuso: You really couldn't find a better word than "Noob"? Really? Wow. Novice? Beginner? New to coin magic? Just trying to help:)
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NickyEvil New user Hong Kong SAR 37 Posts
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The matrix routines work fine for me
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Strange Tasting Fish Sticks 1988 - 2013 The Big Brother is watching you 1095 Posts
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Quote:
On 2010-02-24 09:34, MaxfieldsMagic wrote: I've been working on the vanish routine since the dvds release in north america. I usually practice it 3-5 hours a day. I've seen one person so far who has it down very very well, almost as good as ponta, in my opinion (although he doesn't think so). We all learn at different rates. I am getting much better at the vanish sequence, but a lot of it comes down to polish. Doing the final production in the mirror, it appears to 'pop' into existence. On video it is hard to see, though. I've got the moves down, like you, I just need to polish it up. Keep in mind ponta has been doing coin magic for 10 years, and he practices 2-3 hours a day currently, but used to practice more. |
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msmaster Special user 522 Posts
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Practice makes perfect.
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts
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I'd be happy with "barely competent" right now.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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Posted: Feb 10, 2010 01:14 am 
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