I remember the story of the milk-drinking "miracle."

Of course, it's possible to get almost any statue to "drink" milk or liquid due to the physics of capillary action.

Philemon,

What are the physics of capillary action? You mean the material in the statue would naturally absorb the liquid?

About the drawer coming open; who knows? There are certain conditions you would not be able to recreate to try and make it happen again. One would be nature, such as if windows were open the gusts of wind would always be different.

Also, it would matter how fast or slow you closed the drawer as it pertains to air pressure being built up inside the box.

Without it happening more than once I would tend to believe that although it may not be understood, it's most likely a force of nature at play.

Of course, looking at it as a scientist would, you can't rule out the possibility that you deceived yourself the first time and in fact you did not shut it before going to the bathroom.

Many times when you choose to act, the action has already now been stored as a memory although you really haven't performed the action yet. Something happens along the way and you get sidetracked, but you still remember doing something which in reality you didn't. I'm not saying this is the case, but it would have to be explored.

I have a funny story along these lines. I have a cupboard in which I store dry goods and canned goods. Upon returning from the grocery store I was putting stuff away in this cupboard one day when I noticed some "scratching" coming from a package of red beans and rice I had just set on a shelf of this cupboard.

Well, it actually took me awhile to pinpoint where the "scratching" was coming from. Then there was no doubt in my mind. I had just bought a package or two of red beans and rice with insects or other small creatures inside. I just sat there staring at it for awhile, preparing to do something about it.

When I finally picked up the package I noticed it was jutting up next to and a little on top of a flashlight I keep in the cupboard for times when the electricity dies.

Anyway, this flashlight also has an AM radio tuner inside it. Somehow, as I had put the packages on the shelf I had also turned the knob just slightly on the radio to turn it on. It was between frequencies and so it was the sound of static, with perhaps a little vibration from the package of beans and rice that led me to believe there were live insects inside the package.

This is a very thougt-provoking thread and I hope more members will share their thoughts here.

Duke

As Duke touched upon, it is our perceptions, beliefs, and interpretations that seperate the natural from the supernatural.

During ancient times of religious transition people were seeing angels and gods. Then it was dragons and goblins, then large machines flying through the air and now aliens.

Contemplating such things can be a nice diversion but dwelling on them is certainly consuming time better spent elsewhere, IMO.

Philemon and all my friends,

In my earlier post I had said: "Various theories came up from the scientific community".

One of them, the most common was the 'physics of capillary action'. Thousands of liters of milk had been consumed that day. But the next day (and ever since) these (scientific) theories failed miserably!

Ustaad

And in any of these examples if one was to offer proof to the contrary, would you care to hear it and/or choose to believe it?

The example that pops to mind was a "faith healer" who was actually a researcher (sorry I can't provide the specifics here). When he confessed to the throngs that had gathered to watch and be healed by him that everything they had seen and heard had been a hoax, they didn't believe him.

Yak, That's the POINT! Very well put across.

Ustaad

P.S. "For those who believe, no explanation is needed. For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible". - Dunninger

For anyone who needs proof of the impossible, read a layman's book on quantum physics. The properties or behavior of sub-atomic particles will blow your mind. And I can confidently say anyone who isn't baffled just hasn't spent the time to fully understand it. And this truly beyond comprehension behavior is consistently proven in controlled scientific experiments. I won't go into detail, but if you need some confirmation that things the brain can't possibly fathom exist, such as objects in two places at once(yes, it's true) and the influence just witnessing an event can have on the event, look into any books on quantum physics, double-slit experiment, Heisenberg, Bohr, etc.
"Taking the Quantum Leap" by Fred Alan Wolf is a good place to start.

If these kind of things can truly happen, so could just about anything.

Platt

Add to Platt's list The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra. It touches on both eastern mysticism and the marvels of physics, including quantum theory.

I hear Jeb sleeps with this under his pillow.

Nonsense...

I have a statue of Ganesh that I bought at my local astrology bookstore, and I can get it to 'drink' milk anytime I wish.

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Nonsense...
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We are not discussing a single statue but thousands in number the world over which drank milk only on that day, never before and never after! That's the point.

We are people who have seen it happen and do not talk/ discuss out of the blue.

Ustaad

Hi Duke.

"...such as if windows were open the gusts of wind would always be different."

No windows were open, I checked that.

"Also, it would matter how fast or slow you closed the drawer as it pertains to air pressure being built up inside the box."

That would not matter because then it would have opened imediately. It didn´t. Also, I closed it slowly...

"Of course, looking at it as a scientist would, you can't rule out the possibility that you deceived yourself the first time and in fact you did not shut it before going to the bathroom."

In we reason like that we can´t acheive anything, because we can´t trust ourselves. I closed it very slowly and remained standing there for several seconds watching it precisely because I wanted to be SURE I knew what I did and that I remembered it correctly.

But I must confess I´m not sure I would believe it if someone else told ME. I would suspect very stronly that they remembered wrong, or misinterpreted something. The question for me is: If a scientist or sceptic have an experience, and withtake all the correct measurements, and knows what can cause it, and it still happens, is he more trustworthy?

My logic tells me something natural caused it, but it makes me "irritated" that none of the things I or others have suggested can explain it.



Mikael

Ustaad, did statues all over the world do it? I have heard nothing else than it was only in India, and only at a certain temple.

Mikael

Hello Mikael,

This was a world phenomenon. It took place all over the world, even in my own home, and hence it became so significant an issue. Certain people believe that this was a message from God and that is how it was communicated to all at lightning speed mostly by way of mouth. There were hardly any Hindu’s who did not get the message.

More over I have seen it happen in front of me. I visited a number of temples. Waited and witnessed the miracle in disbelief. I am, myself a scientist, engineer and an innovator (a qualified Chartered Electrical Engineer with post graduation specialization in Refrigeration & Air-conditioning and Computers).

It wasn't that the deities (statues) drank milk form everybody’s hand. There were a few people whose offerings were not accepted (that’s the way I put it) by any statue.

"For those who believe, no explanation is needed. For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible". - Dunninger. So true!

:xmas: Ustaad

One would think, that we, as magicians, would tend to be more critical as thinkers than the average layperson.

I'm not saying that all magicians should automatically become hard-cored skeptical debunkers, and not believe in anything at all that cannot be 'proven' by use of the 'scientific method'.

Personally, I classify myself as a 'skeptical believer'. I keep a fairly open mind when it comes to most paranormal phenomenon. And I do believe in the existence of telepathy, clairvoyance, intuitive premonitions, psychokinetic 'nudges' affecting probability, and alternate dimensional entities (mostly because I've experienced such phenomenon personally).

But I also seriously question any claim that crosses my path. I don't believe in the actuality of Grey alien abductors, Bigfoot, crop circles, psychic surgery, or even milk-drinking statues, because it has been demonstrated to me beyond the shadow of personal doubt, that such things are most likely either misinterpretations of natural phenomenon or blatant hoaxes.

There's a whole wide area of phenomenon that falls into a 'grey area' however and I continue to keep an open mind regarding the possibility of their actuality. These I examine on a case-by-case basis, and just because I find that one instance turns out not to be legitimate, I don't automatically assume that all similar phenomenon isn't real.

The entertainment field that I have chosen to operate brings me into direct contact with many 'true believers', and I have repeatedly learned that one cannot teach true 'critical thinking' to these people. They fight for their beliefs as stubbornly and fiercely as some arch-skeptics fight for their non-beliefs.

I have tried to explain to people why the 'true story' or factoid that they have just told me about is nothing more than an urban legend, and even when confronted with direct evidence (usually through use of an article found on The Straight Dope or Snopes), they still refuse to accept the fact that they might be wrong.

It's never a pleasant experience to discover that one's cherished beliefs are in error, but is is the mark of maturity and spiritual enlightenment to accept the truth when it is demonstrated to us.

Most phenomenon cannot be replicated, and while there may be a natural explanation for such an event, it will be nigh impossible to reconstruct the situation in order to garner the necessary information to understand it properly.

It is also possible that such phenomenon is exactly as it appears, but since it isn't likely to happen again with any predictability, the best course of action is just to chalk it down as 'unexplained'.

BTW, here's a link to an archive of news articles about the Hindu milk-drinking Ganesh miracle:

http://archive.dstc.edu.au/TU/staff/timb......sha.html

Read carefully and decide for yourself.

That is exactly one would think and say "UNEXPLAINED"

There is a vast difference between thinking scientifically and thinking spiritually. The first can be "Explained", the later is left as "UNEXPLAINED". And so I leave it there.

Ustaad

Several years ago, I was working the graveyard shift in a group home for teenage offenders. As I passed through the kitchen, I noticed that a cabinet was open, so I closed it. I went to check to make sure everyone was in bed & came back in the kitchen. The cabinet was open again, this went on several times a night for almost a month.

Then one night as I was passing by, I saw the cabinet move. I moved over to the cabinet just in time to see a big rat poking his head out.

My mystery was solved,

I think rats are responsible for 50% of all paranormal phenomenon.

And I did have the occasion to meet bigfoot. He was my operations officer in the Navy. Kind of an .

It's Magic...

I too have had a number of experiences that really defy explanation. What did I do? How do you handle it? Here's my take: Just "Go with the flow!' That's what I have done!

After all, man, you can't fight these things! You're dealing with something MUCH bigger than yourself!