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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
"So if an ad for a magic trick says, "levitate any object"... "
Your argument is missing the point. If I claim you can levitate ANY object, but don't tell you that the gimmick ONLY levitates playing cards or matches that are forced from a list, I tend to think YOU would think that my claim was false. Especially if you'd just paid a chuck o' change for my gimmick. But, since I haven't spent a dime on this one, I am outta this debate. I got another fire to put out at the moment.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
Andi, either you simply don't understand the argument, or your just trying to start another war. Attacking my personal character with references to my lack of performing skills, telling me to go to spec-savers and having a go at one of my DVD descriptions is just pathetic on your half.
You cannot defend some false advertising by attacking others instead. As someone who spent his hard-earned cash buying this trick, I feel it inappropriate to advertise 'Think', when the trick requires a controlled force. It gives a completely different presentation to the trick as shown on the DVD trailer and as described on the DVD cover. The problem is not with the trick itself. The idea of making a drink appear in a can is a good one. That's why I bought the DVD in the first place! But what I was not subject to seeing in the trailer was the full performance which missed entirely the way the drink was chosen, painting a completely different picture to how this effect works. Even so, I never said anything bad about the trick, I simply believed that anyone else purchasing the effect deserved to know the truth about how the trick is meant to be presented. It would be unfair for me to read honest reviews of other tricks and learn from them whether a DVD was worth buying or not, and not give an honest opinion myself. A buyer deserves to know the true PRESENTATION of the effect before purchasing it. You don't have to reveal the secret, but the lie is in the presentation description, which is what we are all concerned about. To many magic products are over exaggerated in their descriptions. I for one have paid a lot of money for this effect. I don't deserve to be lied to, insulted or mocked in such fashion on this thread. Andi (and the others who have been contacting me and attacking me). If you want to start looking at my own DVDs, then maybe I should start reviewing all your other DVDs and give my current opinion on those? Because that's what Andi has just encouraged me to do by bringing my DVD into the arguments. I few bad reviews across the net will be here forever, and quite frankly, you have much more to lose than me in regards to sales. I have not attacked anyone, I just clarified a description of a trick for the several posters that asked for it. You then started attacking me and I was forced to respond to defend my character. Quite frankly, I don't believe I can add anything else constructive to this discussion. Alan has somewhat admitted the inaccuracies in the items description which has proven me right. The DVD cover speaks for itself. I have nothing further to add here. Steve P.S: I am aware that I am not the main arguer on this thread, and that others have been more slandering. But I actually work for a living and have a website link in my signature. So I guess I'm an easy target for you. But as you can see, personal attacks on me will have consequences if you continue down this road. |
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Andi Peters Inner circle 1330 Posts |
I like you Stephen.
Sorry if I offended you. |
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jprace Inner circle 2209 Posts |
Can anyone compare this with David Ethan's Spirit Can?
http://www.penguinmagic.com/specialorderproduct.php?ID=7115 |
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Magicsquared Inner circle 1262 Posts |
I'm baffled by the people who don't seem to understand the problem with the ad.
Imagine instead of a drink in can effect this was a CARD in can effect. And in the ad it said, "Any card chosen can appear in the can. It doesn't matter what card they choose, that card will appear in the can!" Well, if it turned out the card had to be forced everyone would agree that's false advertising, because it certainly does matter what card is chosen. Ok, we all understand that, right? Well all I did was replace drink with card. Think of it this way, if he wasn't trying to mislead people, what point was he trying to make by saying, "Any drink can appear in the can"? That you can fill up the gimmicked can with milk as well as Tang? I think it goes without saying that if you can fill it up with one liquid that shouldn't be there you can fill it up with any other one too. I'm not saying this isn't a good idea; it may be a great idea. I just don't understand the logic of trying to fool your customers on what they're getting. I don't see how that would benefit anyone in the long run. |
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madcats9 Regular user 177 Posts |
Well guys I don't think the trick is worth discussing that much.
It's pretty obvious that it is advertised in an untrue way, may the creators say what they want - no need to discuss that further. Over here in Germany buyers would have a right to withdraw from a contract because of this advertisement, so I think that's all needed to be said. In the end Alan can say what he wants: we, the buyers, decide over the success of the product so let's hope people choose right. So far for me here. |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
I'm with Steven here, although perhaps he's getting a little heated?! I'd say it's clear that the claims on the front of the DVD are exaggerated. The title: "CANSPOSED Think of a drink..." with the added "Pour ANY drink chosen..." at the bottom, is definitely wrong. The suggestion is that the spectator merely thinks of a drink, and that this is the same drink that is the "chosen" drink which is poured out. Of course, common sense will tell you that this ain't gonna be so!
In this case, I feel it's a shame, because there's nothing much wrong with Cansposed. But it's probably not something many folks would use. It does look remarkably similar to the Spirit Can, so I guess this is just another re-make of an existing effect? Another way to present it would be to have several folks each take a card with the name of a drink on it. The force would then be to choose the person with the correct drink....this would lend itself to many more humourous presentations. Potty |
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patrick flanagan Inner circle lisle, illinois 1045 Posts |
Well, this thread has provided me with some useful information. While this may or may not be a great effect, I find the ad to be mis-leading, at best. I, also, find Alan's attempt to justify the ad copy interesting. "Think of a drink" is quite different from "Think of a drink from a list of drinks".
Alan's attempts to rationalize away this inconsistency will go a long way when I make a future decision about one of his offerings. Or maybe I just find calling people "toots" a display of arrogance and indifference that I find difficult to support with my $$$. patrick |
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
You have an interesting tag line. Seems apropos to this discussion.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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Alan Rorrison V.I.P. 2494 Posts |
I understand fully whats going on. I understand there side of the argument as pointed out before. Again I'm just putting out another view! if everyone else is allowed to voice there I should be allowed to voice mine.
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
Andi. I accept your apology.
Alan - I don't understand your intentions. Whatever. As requested by several people now, I have written a complete review of the trick as I see it, with some suggestions on how to make the 'Think of a drink' accurate to the effect. The review is here: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=111&0 |
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Alan Rorrison V.I.P. 2494 Posts |
Im just bringing round another perspective on it mate. That is all
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trickychris Loyal user England 260 Posts |
Surely, if performed right, the spectator will never realise that they have been "forced" a certain drink
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Russell Regular user 147 Posts |
Trickychris I think your right as long as it appeared fair.
Russell Leeds |
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PatrickGregoire Inner circle 2239 Posts |
False advertising and misleading advertising are NOT the same. This ad may be misleading, but it is NOT false.
As for the dvd cover that says "Think of a drink", it's a catch phrase. It doesn't need to be more specific or realistic than what it says. It's there to sum up what the effect is. And the effect is always about what spectators experience. They will experience thinking of a drink. Last but not least, as for the phrase "Pour ANY drink chosen": It might be misleading but it is not false. You can pour "ANY" drink chosen, because the only drink that will ever be chosen is the force drink. The only point I am trying to make is to not start accusing creators of false advertising when it may not be the case. Omission may not be appreciated, but it is not lying. |
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Jv Regular user 136 Posts |
@PatrickGregoire I completely agree with your post.
Jv
Guillotine+ASYLUM
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Russell Scoggin Loyal user Lubbock, Texas 257 Posts |
I don't think that effects should say a "Force is involved for the effect to work." Anyone that has any knowledge of magic would know that you couldn't literally make any drink called for appear in a can. Then spend your money on the effect and expect it to be that way unless you were a beginner in magic. I do realize that the advertising wasn't in effect the complete truth, but you should already know that. And by the way, if you do have any doubt about an effect, then simply wait for a review on it. So many different effects use forces and don't tell you that they do. It's nothing new in magic and I really don't think it's all that unethical to not say something about the force. There are always going to be arguments that arise about effects regardless. I think people get mad about something like the advertising on this effect and then don't purchase it because they are mad about it. They may be missing a great effect whenever they do that. I looks like somthing that could really be good and that I would use. I mean if you're half way willing to give the creator's of these effects, with a bit of misleading advertising sometimes, a break and not jump down their throats about it. (And like I said if you are skeptical, then just wait for a review instead of throwing out all these argument). I mean think about it, there are creative and structural ways to win arguments without being downright mean. No one ever wins those kind of arguments. Even if the other person finally backs down, it doesn't mean you've won. I just simply means they've gotten tired of hearing you. And you know, we all learn from mistakes. (Most of us anyway, LOL!) So if you find out that what you did was wrong, then you'll do your best to not make the same mistake in the future. But again, harmful criticism isn't the way to go. You won't win, I promise. Constructive and helpful type of critisism is always better. Anyway, I think I will be purchasing this effect regardless of the force that's involved.
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Martin Duffy New user 92 Posts |
I looked at this effect and the accompanying video when it first came out.
What appealed to me was David saying "Say any drink" to the first spectator and "For the first time name the drink" to the second. Now...I understand he should have said "For the first time name the drink you looked at" to the second and they edited it to sell it to magicians (and maybe portray what the spec remembers) but WHAT should he have said to the first one to make the advertising correct...?? At the beginning of the video he clearly says "Say ANY drink"...THAT is misleading - you can't say that...they cant even say any drink from a list... Can someone from World Magic Shop explain this discrepancy? At 1.34 in this video the spec is told "clear your mind and think of any drink..." http://www.worldmagicstore.com/product_i......_id=5980 Despite the arguments I can see me using this - just not in the way I thought. We may want a modern version of the Spirit Kettle and I certainly expected a choice from one can BUT its only £24...and we know we are not getting anything like that...but we lived in hope - didn't we?? After all we were told its "the modern day equivalent of Devants Magic Kettle" - and we know there are SEVERAL drinks choices from one container in that effect. Thanks to Stephen for telling us the whole picture. I can understand World Magic Shop not letting us know the full routine (not many dealers do) but to show a video where the spec is asked - "Say any drink" is misleading and will cause many to look at any future advertising twice. |
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Al Straker Grammar Host Australia 1129 Posts |
Just received this, I see there has been some mixed feelings on this thread. The following are simply my own opinions.
Ok first thought was OMG this is going to take ages to set up each time. Boy was I wrong there! It's actually pretty simple and quick to set up although obviously you don't want to be setting up dozens of them so I would personally use this as a feature item in a parlour/stage setting. Now I guess there were some folks who litterally thought this would be a free choice method of "Think a Drink". Ok the advertising did give that impression at first glance but personally, I immediately assumed it had to be a f**** considering the price of the effect. I guess we could argue both sides of this all day but I would rather talk about the actual effect and ideas around that. I will just say I think the price is very fair for the kit you get. Also another thing to remember a well executed force or preshow work will leave exactly the impression of a free choice in any case. After viewing the DVD, I suspect (not having performed it yet) this will be one of those long remembered and talked about effects like coin in bottle. It does get some pretty cool reactions on the DVD and I do like that the moment of magic is suspended by the impossibility of the long pour of a drink that simply couldn't be inside that can! There are also many posibilities to vary the plotline. Immediately a transposing drinks possibility came to mind. Have several people put unopened cans on a table then use PATEO eliminate cans until there are just 2 left. Cause the drinks to change places INSIDE the cans. PATEO would be a very natural way to f**** the drinks and gimmicked cans while giving a perfect illusion of choice! What about a pseudo hypnosis presentation making someone think that lemonade is sparling mineral water etc. Would be a nice subtle application of the principle that completely shifts the moment of the effect to well after the can is out of play. In summary I can and do understand the issues with advertising and I think dealers tread a thin line here but personally I thought Cansposed was good value. Cheers, Al Straker
Al Straker
Resident Mystery Entertainer at Multiple Venues Music & Mentalism Specialty Act 'Completely Mental' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyGhApqnG7I (Old clip, show has changed quite a bit since then!) Jazz & Contemporary Musician/Composer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnN3JNmeKns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU_zfOvpneA |
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David Ethan New user France 35 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-03-01 19:54, jprace wrote: Very good question ;-)
David Ethan
www.david-ethan.com |
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