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Jerry
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I am not saying that Becker's box is better, just that similar results can be obtained.

I had no problem with inserting billets or pay envelopes. Granted, what I am suggesting is risky, but possible. Yes if the spectator knocks over the box, you will of course have problems.

Nevertheless I will look into this product (Dream Box).

JerryB
Dr Spektor
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If the spectator knocks over any box unplanned - it isn't great Smile
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
RenzIII
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Mentalist Dream Box

Just wanted to put up a quick post on Max Krause's Mentalist Dream Box

I used this item last week for a corporate event. I must say it left a very powerful impression
on a very large group of people. I mixed a presentation, a CEO Vote and lottery prediction.

The box was left in full view under a spotlight while I was hanging out in my dressing room, the audience was asked to put the billets in the box themselves within a half hour period. that's a total of 80 billets.

When it came time to do the routine, the box was opened by an audience member and billets removed at random, I never had to go near the box for anything. The numbers and votes were marked on a large board.

The sealed prediction which, was sent a week before, was hanging up high in full view the entire time.
When it came time to reveal the prediction, the crowd was stunned.

All I can say is what an amazing prop, well thought out, totally hands off. And as far as billets imagine 80 billets and no hangs ups.

Going in, I suspected it would be killer but I was worried about how many billets would fit, even I tested it. I had done the effect a couple weeks before but for a smaller group with about 30 billets, so I was worried. In the end the prop came through in flying colors.

My hat is off to Max for making such a versatile prop that actually works, lol. Afterward people kept coming up to me to ask how it was possible that I could predict what would happen? And they took note that I never touched anything. Amazing, lol.

So powerful was this on my audience, its currently my closer. Go get one of these!!!!!!!!!!

Just wanted to put up a quick post on Max Krause's Mentalist Dream Box

I used this item last week for a corporate event. I must say it left a very powerful impression
on a very large group of people. I mixed a presentation, a CEO Vote and lottery prediction.

The box was left in full view under a spotlight while I was hanging out in my dressing room, the audience was asked to put the billets in the box themselves within a half hour period. that's a total of 80 billets.

When it came time to do the routine, the box was opened by an audience member and billets removed at random, I never had to go near the box for anything. The numbers and votes were marked on a large board.

The sealed prediction which, was sent a week before, was hanging up high in full view the entire time.
When it came time to reveal the prediction, the crowd was stunned.

All I can say is what an amazing prop, well thought out, totally hands off. And as far as billets imagine 80 billets and no hangs ups.

Going in, I suspected it would be killer but I was worried about how many billets would fit, even I tested it. I had done the effect a couple weeks before but for a smaller group with about 30 billets, so I was worried. In the end the prop came through in flying colors.

My hat is off to Max for making such a versatile prop that actually works, lol. Afterward people kept coming up to me to ask how it was possible that I could predict what would happen? And they took note that I never touched anything. Amazing, lol.

So powerful was this on my audience, its currently my closer. Go get one of these!!!!!!!!!!
eric50
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I recently purchased the Mentalist's Dream Box from Max, then had the pleasure of meeting and spending time with at the recent Mindvention in Las Vegas. I would put Max's products right up there next to Promystic( I guess that's why they are friends) the quality and customer service is suburb and Max is just a nice guy. Is it expensive, it is if you leave it sitting in your den or office, but for a worker it's worth it and much more. As with Promystic stuff I wish that I was in the minority of people who own their products because they are that good. Highly, Highly, recommended.
Illusionist of the Mind
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Wow... How can it possibly cost so much?

I do not know the workings; but unless its electronic (which I don't imagine it is) I am amazed at the price tag. I don't want a highly expensive-looking bit of wood to put billets into, I want something which looks and feels like a shoe box.
shpf100
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Yeah wowsers-I'm sure it's nice but I think it originally cost under 400 please correct me if I'm wrong-I know I thought about it for awhile-guess I should have jumped on it considering the price quantum leap
brehaut
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Quote:
On 2011-10-21 17:21, Illusionist of the Mind wrote:
Wow... How can it possibly cost so much?

I do not know the workings; but unless its electronic (which I don't imagine it is) I am amazed at the price tag. I don't want a highly expensive-looking bit of wood to put billets into, I want something which looks and feels like a shoe box.

I really don't know what the point of your post is. Max's product are first rate as is his reputation.
Illusionist of the Mind
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Ohh I know, I'm sure its amazing. People are comparing him to Craig, and that's the highest compliment ever. But seriously, I want a shoe box.
Dr Spektor
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Heck, I own of of these and I wouldn't want to take the time to have figured the specs and build the thing to high quality - that is why I bought it.

If you don't want a hands off method - go build an OM box. However, then it has its limits.

Its not the cost that counts - its the VALUE to the purchaser.... that has been the true issue with all these discussions. Its the VALUUEEEEEEEEEEE which is totally context driven.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
eric50
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I agree that it is the value to the purchaser. When I bought this from Max, yes the price seemed high at first, but then when I received it I understand why and when I used it in my shows I didn't care one bit about the cost, because the results were fantastic.
Steven Conner
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100% HANDS OFF!! Box looks natural. HANDS OFF!! Big stage illusions are nice and cost a lot of money, but they're not HANDS OFF!! This thing is killer, HANDS OFF!!
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
goatears
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I saw Max demo this at his lecture. It was great! He totally killed with it. I was called up for the reveal and I have know idea how he did it. It was great!
Domino Magic
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Quote:
On 2011-11-03 16:47, Steven Conner wrote:
100% HANDS OFF!! Box looks natural. HANDS OFF!! Big stage illusions are nice and cost a lot of money, but they're not HANDS OFF!! This thing is killer, HANDS OFF!!

I don't understand why HANDS OFF! is what makes it or breaks it. The props we use in our show are just that, our props and the audience expects that we touch them, move them, handle them, etc. I was watching Derren Brown's Enigma show and he has a wicker basket that audience members drop billets into before the show and then during the presentation, Derren picks up the basket and brings it forward for someone to choose one of the papers. How is that suspicious? Would the whole routine have been stronger if Derren never touched the basket?

Nothing negative about this prop. I'm sure it's a nice box and does what it says it does. But I think sometimes we get caught up in details that only matter to other mentalists.
theinternetguru
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There are spectators who watch carefully and work back through everything you have done. What you get with Max's box is a device that will provide a logical disconnect for those kinds of spectators. Your point is valid, though, for many people who experience mentalism and are not so analytical. Unless they see you blatantly reaching into the billets, they cannot discern the method. There is something to be said for a device that cleanly handles both types of spectators.
Domino Magic
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I understand your point, but I'll ask the same question regarding Derren Brown. Did picking up his basket (hamper) in Enigma to have someone in the audience reach in and pull out a slip of paper lessen the effect? And I'm not 100% sure Derren did anything to activate a switch. It may have been an assistant who picked it up off the stage and placed it on a table. In that case he never did have to touch the basket and could have had someone come up and take the slip that way - over-proving what didn't need to be proved.

Taking the position of "hands off" as the ultimate way to do mentalism then really ruins a lot of mentalism routines. 4DT, you have to handle the envelopes. Sneak Thief, you have to handle the boards/pads in which the spectator's drew on and many classic methods for doing Q&A (Dunninger/Kreskin/Osterlind) all have the mentalist handling the slips of paper and envelopes. Are these routines less mysterious/deceptive? I don't think so. Again I see this as overkill. A toy that wouldn't impact the presentation. Seems like it's great to fool a bunch of mentalists who are looking for another method!
theinternetguru
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I didn't mean to imply that being completely hands off is essential for a clean effect. This is simply one possible logical disconnect. 4DT has other strong logical disconnects built into it (and in fact, at no point should the spectator see you handling a billet after they write on it, so in one sense, it is "hands off"). As for Sneak Thief, I am not sure that Becker's original is sneaky enough. I do Spellman's Thief in the Dark, which allows the spectators to shuffle the drawing boards and randomly put them into opaque envelopes before I handle them. I find this adds an important disconnect to the routine.

I didn't see Derren's performance, so I cannot comment on whether it involved other logical disconnects. I would not disdain a method that fooled a mentalist, though; there is no downside in a very clean effect that no one can figure out.

As an example, I just returned from a cruise with my (very beautiful) wife. We saw a magician perform in cabaret while on board. My wife was called as a volunteer, and the magician vanished her ring, then caused it to appear in a locked box that was (from the beginning) held in the hands of someone in the front row. (It was also inside a can, and she had to use a can opener to get at it, lol.) How precisely it got into the box (and the can) was a mystery to my wife, but it was clear to her that it had to happen sometime between when he retrieved the box from the spectator and when he set it on a pedestal toward the back of the stage. It was a good trick (for her) but no miracle. Max's box provides a chance to perform a miracle, even to someone who is highly analytical.
Domino Magic
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Here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V18glwztPes

It's right there at the beginning. Curious to know your reaction after you've had a chance to watch it.

Enjoy!
theinternetguru
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This guy is good, isn't he? I think the logical disconnect is that, as he picks up the basket, he immediately angles it toward the audience, carries it lightly in one hand, and hands it off quickly. When a container is essentially open and in view, physical proximity isn't as important. So this isn't really a valid comparison, it's not apples to apples. If (like the magician in my example) this was a closed, wooden box that he carried slowly (with his hands basically out of sight) to the man in the front row, I don't think this would be as interesting an effect, would it? Max's box is intended to provide a logical disconnect in those kinds of plots, not ones involving the kind of portable utility device that Derren is employing.
Domino Magic
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There's a number of disconnects. The first one being the basket was on the stage right in front of everyone and they got to drop the paper in. I would imagine that the basket isn't examinable, but it doesn't need to be. Another is that it's just a simple basket. There's no suspicion on it. I like that it's open, because again there's nothing to conceal.

I don't agree that you can't compare the two. Well actually on one point I do. Derren's prop isn't for sale, so short of making one yourself, you can't find one. So you can't compare something that doesn't exist to something that does.

Not to copy Derren's routine, I created a similar open-concept simple switch box for less than $20. It's a common box you would find in an organizational store. Took less than 5 minutes to construct and I can duplicate probably any effect you can do with the $650 box with the same impact. It can be handed out and people can drop in their papers without fear of detection. It's not something I'm selling, so I'm not trying to promote anything. It was really to find a better solution to the Otis Manning Box in Annemann.

Basically I'm agreeing with what Greg Arce posted on the first page of this thread:

Quote:
I'm assuming this box is great. It sounds great. But don't let magician thinking make you think that an audience will see the difference between that and any other OM box. If you asked a regular group from two shows that saw this box and an OM box what they saw... well, they'll practically say the same thing: "We wrote stuff down and then someone picked one of our slips at random and the guy knew what that guy was thinking." More than likely, in both cases, they would probably not mention the box. To them it's just a container to hold the slips.

But if it makes you happy to fool other magicians then go for it. Like I said, I'm sure it's an excellent product.
theinternetguru
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Whether this is a better or cleaner solution is the question. Again, I'd have to see it. Whether your gimmick or Derren's can reproduce all the effects that Max's box can is unknown. Does the ability to do a switch without being in the vicinity make Max's box a cleaner and more puzzling effect? I think so. Does it validate the price tag? That's relative to the one buying it. The point is settled by this -- if Derren could do the same effect without approaching the basket, would he touch it? No way. There is, therefore, value in this method. Not for you, apparently, but for those who can afford it, possibly.
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