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mark townsend Regular user 132 Posts |
I go back and forth re. the above question but, you know, when I work with young people I always close with two magic effects... both being rather symbolic and themed within the general performance. They just seem to work. My style is waffly, chatty and a touch baffoon-like. Love to get some comments if any of you guys have a spare moment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bts7bnBz-w Peace! Mark |
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ChuckHickok Loyal user 245 Posts |
There is no one "best answer" to your question. You will hear lots of advice.
Yet, I believe the answer to your question should be based on "why" you are in front of your audience ... and how you want to be remembered. An skilled "entertainer" can combine magic and mentalism to delight and amaze an audience. I know many performers who do a great job even though the audience knows the effects aren't real. But a person claiming to have "special mental abilities" ( a mentalist ) should limit what he or she presents to only mentalism demonstrations. I want my audience to believe my effects are real for as long as possible. My act has been all mentalism for 20 years. However, I still do some close-up effects for my friends ... and grandkids ... when they ask to see something "magic" in a casual setting. Chuck Hickok |
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Christian & Katalina Elite user 407 Posts |
I cringed when I read that question..but...
"Yet, I believe the answer to your question should be based on "why" you are in front of your audience ... and how you want to be remembered." by Chuck Hickok sums it up nicely. There is no right or wrong answer to this question...when posed without restrictions.
Milbourne Christopher Award for Mentalism 2011
The Annemann Award for Menatalism 2016 Author of "Protoplasm" Close-up Mentalism |
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chmara Inner circle Tucson, AZ 1911 Posts |
Why not characterize a magician == who has flashed opf psychic powers at odd times -- like in the middle of a maqic act? Make it kook impromptu -- like something came over you, NOT like a planned routine or magic trick that actually is mentalism.
And Christian - I still have it - and am almost forced to deeply consider your request. Trying to sell the props and house to keep going. Your advice above is right on -- unless someone wants to found a cult rather than being an entertainer/ sub-category - magician or mentalist. What I find devastating to both parts of the craft is those who do not consider the totality of effects as they add up. Too often they seem to be a set of "look at what I can do" commercials for the magician. I know because I have dane that too often. I did find it jarring to see Kreskin doing card tricks -- bit he tried to keep them along the lines of using mind powers to control the audience member's choice -- or mind powers for the revelation. I just do not like cards (playing cards) and mentalism. It stinks of doing flourishes with Tarot cards and calling it "Bizarre magic." Each mentalist who thinks magic and mentalism should be separate and equal is right. Each GOOD magician who feels magic and mentalism should be equal is right. Those who prefer only one or the other are also right - as are those who feel they all should be performed together. No one is wrong in this fight -- unless their presentation makes a bad or nonsensical impression on the public involving them as much as a commercial they have seen hundreds of times on the tele.
Gregg (C. H. Mara) Chmara
Commercial Operations, LLC Tucson, AZ C. H. Mara Illusion & Psychic Entertainments |
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alpha alex Special user 774 Posts |
Hi Mark
yes you can do Magic and Mentalism as long as you don't do balloon animals that's were I draw my line. just kidding.. I think people were really interested in what you were doing and saying and you got some nice reactions out of it.. I really liked how you used the bubbles and the snowflakes as analogies of dreams that come true and that we all are different. nice video, well done! just a question.. who you were performing for? what was the age range? |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12968 Posts |
You certainly won't get arrested!! That's for sure.
J |
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Mr. Mindbender Inner circle 1566 Posts |
No John, you're mistaken.
The Magic and Mentalism Summit, Helsinki, 1979. Doug Henning represented magicians. Maurice Fogel elected as the Mentalism representative. Out of it came the Hoy Treaty making it illegal for magic and mentalism to be used in the same performance. Know your history. |
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts |
WIth the right presentation, anything is possible.
What I would say is that it's very easy to mix magic and mentalism badly. What's more, some of those that mix magic and mentalism badly will be some of the ones shouting the loudest that it's fine to mix the two.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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takeachance Inner circle 3777 Posts |
Richard Osterlind does it nicely. Its all about entertainment and what image you want to convey. I've seen some really corny mentalist acts by some big names in the industry trying to portray that they can read body language and use NLP to read a persons thoughts. After the show, no one in the foyer was buzzing. Darren Brown gets away with it because he is a great entertainer. Osterlind kills in a corporate setting with a mixture of the arts because he carefully chooses the material he melds together. I feel it depends were you are as a performer rather than the material.
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1249 Posts |
David Blaine. Say what you want about him; the public ate it up. Many I've talked to believed his mind reading effects were real, despite his magic effects.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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tincture Special user 587 Posts |
And many people believed his magic effects were real.
So it's not saying much to the combination. |
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KBLV Regular user Las Vegas 188 Posts |
Anyone who says "This or that shouldn't/can't go together" ought to be ignored. That's all the more reason TO do it, because those who follow "conventional wisdom" will avoid it, thus giving you a clear field.
Do the show YOU want to do. |
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KBLV Regular user Las Vegas 188 Posts |
Mark, I watched the vid. The gasps of surprise and awe from the kids when you showed them the solid bubble is all the answer you need to your question above.
I do have a couple of small suggestions. Unless you have an artistic reason not to do so, I'd like to see you toss the solid bubble up, just once, and catch it. To me, that would reinforce the fact that it has "become real." Also, when you're done with the bubble, why do you simply drop it into your case? You've given substance to something that is, by definition, fleeting and transitory. You've performed the impossible. Shouldn't it go someplace special? (Perhaps a small, velvet-lined case with a clear lid, so the kids can see it, but not touch it, after the show...?) In ansy case, GREAT work. I really enjoyed it. |
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1249 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-02-15 21:38, tincture wrote: Exactly. Quote:
So it's not saying much to the combination. Not exactly. @Kevin... your suggestions are both helpful and meaningful. I took something away from them, and it's not even my act.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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Thomas Henry Inner circle Minnesota 1410 Posts |
Hi Gang,
Well... I was a member of the audience committee on stage with Dunninger in 1965 (IBM Convention in Des Moines, but I wasn't a member yet). No one complained when he extracted a full tumbler of water from an empty cloth bag. Hardly what you would call a typical psychic power... Speaking of which, have you ever noticed just how many mentalists of renown produce tumblers of water in their acts? Thomas Henry |
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Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
I've learned to mix the two and everything runs smoothly. Though I don't produce tumblers of water, I do incorporate the Hindu Sands illusion in the act. I do think that magic and mentalism have to be woven together in a seamless fashion. The two would have to be part of the same cloth. In a way, all magicians are mentalist as they have to be masters of deception through the skillful use of mis-direction, which is the ultimate mind control.
And I argee with Jeff, David Blaine is a really good example of how to mix the two. I've seen BLaine perform and in his own quirky way he is a master performer. Peace and Godspeed.
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
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KBLV Regular user Las Vegas 188 Posts |
Jeff, thanks! Every once in awhile I come up with something of value.
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Osterlind, McBride, and Banacheck all do.
I've had very good success dividing a show up into three parts, three of my main interests. The first part was straight out magic tricks, just for fun. The second was cheating demonstrations and themed tricks. The last part was mentalism. I simply framed each part accordingly, I acknowledged that much of what I do are tricks and sleight of hand, but some of what I do is quite real. I then implied (but did not say outright) that the mentalism was real. Suffice it to say that when the spoons were done bending I could have started a church (it's nice to know I have something to fall back on! ;-) )
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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mark townsend Regular user 132 Posts |
Thank you ALL,
VERY helpful comments and sound advice re. my presentation. One thign I should have said is that the 'bubble' (which becomes 'real') is a running theme throughout the whole performance. Right at the beginning I talk about 'thought bubbles' and I use the idea of the bubble of thought for the person, who's mind I am going to 'read,' to visualise between us etc. Also all the pre-show work is done by asking folk to draw x,y,z inside a thought bubble, which I draw on the clip board etc. Just tends to hold it all together. Thanks again for the very generous remarks - the kids were about 15 / 16 years old. Mark |
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David Rhodes Loyal user 282 Posts |
It can be done however it has to be done well.
I feel that most good mentalists can combine the two better than most good magicians. The reason behind this is that most mentalist seem to know how they are doing the effect. I don't mean CT or NW but more of there abilities. This inturn makes them apply the same logic to the magic aspects which they choose to include in their effects. Patrick Redford has an ACR with a psychological manipulation application. However with a lot of magicians often get lost in the effect in itself not the connection with the audience. This is why you see so many magicians doing a classic force and mind reading afterwards. Whilst this is not a bad effect by any means but when it takes you 7 seconds to say it's a red card um diamonds the six of diamonds. With no real method or no real trouble to achieve the desired effect. |
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