The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Oh joy, more good climate news (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16247 Posts

Profile of tommy
Quote:
On 2010-02-23 20:03, Doug Higley wrote:
“In [Gore's] science fiction movie, every assertion has been rebutted,” Inhofe said. He believes Vice President Gore should defend himself and his movie before Congress."


http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/climategate......clusive/


Sorry Sir but that is not allowed:

“The Rules of the Game

Forget the climate change detractors.

Those who deny climate change science are irritating, but unimportant. The argument is not about if we should deal with climate change, but how we should deal with climate change.”

Rule 1 sub section 2.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20565 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On 2010-02-23 21:48, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-02-23 20:00, Dannydoyle wrote:
I often forget that part sir, and I am glad you reminded me. Also once you have someone fearing the other point of view, it is easier to jump to demonisation, and eventually hatred of them. This way those in power keep amassing it.

And those out of power keep amassing it to stir the pot.


I do not think you take my point quite right. I am saying that while they have the masses arguing about liberal/conservative, choice/life and other just HUGE wedge issues, EACH PARTY is just as happy as can be because they know that it is cyclical. That eventually THEY will be back in the drivers seat, and even when they are not they can still have huge amounts of power and that is the problem.

I am saying that they are a class of people that nobody accounts for in the debate. We all hear about the rich, the poor and the middle class but what about the political elite? I single out NO PARTY, I am saying they are all as guilty of it as the other.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
HerbLarry
View Profile
Special user
Poof!
731 Posts

Profile of HerbLarry
Smile Smile Smile
You know why don't act naive.
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5022 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2010-02-24 01:31, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-02-23 21:48, Steve_Mollett wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-02-23 20:00, Dannydoyle wrote:
I often forget that part sir, and I am glad you reminded me. Also once you have someone fearing the other point of view, it is easier to jump to demonisation, and eventually hatred of them. This way those in power keep amassing it.

And those out of power keep amassing it to stir the pot.


I do not think you take my point quite right. I am saying that while they have the masses arguing about liberal/conservative, choice/life and other just HUGE wedge issues, EACH PARTY is just as happy as can be because they know that it is cyclical. That eventually THEY will be back in the drivers seat, and even when they are not they can still have huge amounts of power and that is the problem.

I am saying that they are a class of people that nobody accounts for in the debate. We all hear about the rich, the poor and the middle class but what about the political elite? I single out NO PARTY, I am saying they are all as guilty of it as the other.

Well Danny, happily again here is the part where we agree--but with one difference. I think if you take a look at the political elite, you will see they are one and the same as the wealthiest class. Coincidence?--I think not. Where do former politicians go to when they leave office--to the boards of the corporations that have been paying them off all those years, or they become lobbiests for the corporations they were supposed to be regulating.

I feel like you see all the dots, but don't connect them. Smile
stanalger
View Profile
Special user
St. Louis, MO
996 Posts

Profile of stanalger
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16247 Posts

Profile of tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Whit Haydn
View Profile
V.I.P.
5449 Posts

Profile of Whit Haydn
The O.J. tactic

Climate change skeptics sound like Simpson's lawyers: If the winter glove won't fit, you must acquit.

Opinion February 24, 2010

By Bill McKibben

In recent years, every major scientific body in the world has produced reports confirming the peril of climate change. All 15 of the warmest years on record have come in the last two decades. And Earth's major natural systems are all showing undeniable signs of rapid flux: melting Arctic and glacial ice, rapidly acidifying seawater and so on.

Yet because of a recent onslaught of attacks on the science of climate change, fewer Americans now believe humans are warming the planet than did just a few years ago.

The doubters of climate science have launched an enormously clever -- and effective -- campaign, and it's worth trying to understand how they've done it. The best analogy is perhaps the O.J. Simpson trial.

The "dream team" of lawyers assembled for Simpson's defense had a problem: The evidence against their client was formidable. Nicole Brown Simpson's blood was all over his socks, and that was just the beginning. So Johnnie Cochran, Robert Shapiro, Alan Dershowitz, F. Lee Bailey, Robert Kardashian et al decided to attack the process, arguing that it put Simpson's guilt in doubt -- and doubt, of course, was all they needed. Hence, those days of cross-examination about exactly how Dennis Fung had transported blood samples and which racial slurs LAPD Det. Mark Fuhrman had used.

In his closing arguments, Cochran compared Fuhrman to Adolf Hitler and called him "a genocidal racist, a perjurer, America's worst nightmare and the personification of evil." His only real audience was the jury, many of whom had good reason to dislike the Los Angeles Police Department, but the team managed to instill considerable doubt in lots of Americans tuning in on TV as well. That's what happens when you spend week after week dwelling on the cracks in a case, no matter how small they may be. They made convincing mountains from the molehills they had to work with.

Similarly, the immense pile of evidence now proving the science of global warming beyond any reasonable doubt is in some ways a great boon for those who deny that the biggest problem we've ever faced is actually a problem at all. If you have a three-page report, it won't be overwhelming, but it's also unlikely to have many mistakes. Three thousand pages (the length of the latest report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change)? That pretty much guarantees you'll get some things wrong.

Indeed, the panel managed to include half a dozen errors -- most egregiously a spurious date for the year by which Himalayan glaciers will disappear. It won't happen by 2035, as the report indicated -- a fact that has now been spread so widely across the Internet that it's more or less obliterated the indisputable fact that virtually every glacier on the planet is busily melting.

Similarly, much has been made of the so-called Climategate scandal involving thousands of hacked e-mails and documents from a British research center. A few of the communications suggested the scientists were dismissive of research that came to conclusions they disagreed with. One British scientist, Phil Jones, has been placed on leave while his university decides if he should be punished for, among other things, not complying with Freedom of Information Act requests.

Jones could be considered the Mark Fuhrman of climate science; focus on him and maybe people will ignore the inconvenient mountain of evidence about climate change that the world's scientific researchers have compiled.

The skeptics also have taken advantage of lucky breaks that have crossed their path, such as the recent record set of snowstorms that hit Washington. It doesn't matter that such a record is just the kind of thing scientists have been predicting, given the extra water vapor global warming is adding to the atmosphere. The doubters simply question how it can be suddenly super-snowy if the world is actually warming.

For a gifted political operative like, say, Marc Morano, who runs the Climate Depot website, the massive snowfalls this winter provided grist for a hundred posts poking fun at the very idea that anyone could still possibly believe in, you know, physics. Morano truly is talented -- he immediately posted a link to a live webcam so readers could watch snow coming down. Meanwhile, his former boss, Oklahoma's Republican Sen. James Inhofe, had his grandchildren build an igloo on the Capitol grounds, with a sign that read: "Al Gore's New Home."

These are the things that stick in people's heads. If the winter glove won't fit, you must acquit.

In the long run, the climate-deniers will be a footnote to history. But by delaying action, they will have helped prevent us from taking the steps we need to take while there's still time. If we're going to make real change while it matters, it's important to remember that their skepticism isn't the root of the problem. It simply plays on our deep-seated resistance to change.

That inertia is what gives the climate cynics ground to operate. That's what we need to overcome, and at bottom that's a battle about data, but also about courage and hope. In the last year, we've rallied millions of people in almost every country to demand action on climate change, and to start building the world beyond fossil fuel. The truth will out.

Bill McKibben is the author of a dozen books, including the forthcoming "Eaarth: Making a Life on a Tough New Planet." He's a scholar in residence at Middlebury College in Vermont and the founder of 350.org, a global grass-roots climate campaign. A longer version of this article can be read at tomdispatch.com
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16247 Posts

Profile of tommy
6. Strike a careful balance with your language
The language we use to describe the challenge of climate change is huge, hyperbolic and almost pornographic; the language of the solutions is often all about ‘small, cheap and easy’. We need to make solutions sound more heroic, use grander terms, and make the scale of the solution sound equal to the scale of the problem.

Remember to make good sound normal and bad sound rare. Being good is important but being normal is even more so. Every time we say that ‘most people’ aren’t climate friendly, we’ve tipped the balance towards the wrong behaviours.

- The “official” Rules of Game -
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27145 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
...all brought to you by the same folks who brought you eugenics and try to teach the theory of evolution. Are you sure you want to play their game?

Just what is the basis of this trust they ask for?

Just what are the recommended courses of action, replacement technologies and plan to deal with those who wish to do as "we" did rather than do as "we" tell them?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5022 Posts

Profile of landmark
Just which of the current climate scientists have brought us eugenics?
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27145 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Quote:
On 2010-02-25 18:19, landmark wrote:
Just which of the current climate scientists have brought us eugenics?


No, try again. It's a branding thing.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Whit Haydn
View Profile
V.I.P.
5449 Posts

Profile of Whit Haydn
Jon, do you not believe in evolution?
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27145 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
See, more about dogma. Are you not of the faith? Are you a denier?

With that kind of language you can't really blame folks for being very suspicious.

And why should folks believe this latest product from "science" in this largely political context when ... still no answers to the practical questions asked earlier:

Quote:
Just what are the recommended courses of action, replacement technologies and plan to deal with those who wish to do as "we" did rather than do as "we" tell them?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
balducci
View Profile
Loyal user
Canada
230 Posts

Profile of balducci
Quote:
On 2010-02-25 18:10, Jonathan Townsend wrote:

...all brought to you by the same folks who brought you eugenics and try to teach the theory of evolution. Are you sure you want to play their game?

Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Steve_Mollett
View Profile
Inner circle
Eh, so I've made
3010 Posts

Profile of Steve_Mollett
Money talks...but it don't sing and it don't walk...
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5022 Posts

Profile of landmark
On 2010-02-25 18:53, Jonathan Townsend wrote:

Quote:
Just what are the recommended courses of action, replacement technologies and plan to deal with those who wish to do as "we" did rather than do as "we" tell them?

As you well know, there have been many many recommendations, some of which I agree with, some of which I don't. Some of them make good sense as energy policy whether global warming is occurring or not--and some of them don't.

It's just as easy to frame the discussion by saying that climate change denial is brought to you by the same folks who brought you Three Mile Island, The War on Terrorism, and the murders of Hiroshima civilians.

But that would be wrong and ludicrous.

Seems to me we're heading perilously close to Godwin territory.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16247 Posts

Profile of tommy
"one-child" policy has averted the births of more than 300 million people, who would have emitted an additional 1.3 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide per year, a government environment report said."
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27145 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
I'm not the one talking about deniers or language usually used by the religious to discuss their dogma. Nor am I using any moral calculus/leverage to put skepticism against the impending doom of generations (and more) to scare people into compliance.

So, what do you have as far as answers to the basic questions?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16247 Posts

Profile of tommy
Give them what they are asking for. Oh well done China by the way but we can do better: Al Gore's mansion etc puts out more carbon dioxide in a month than an average US guy in a year. So we start by killing 300 million of worlds richest people to save the world. Just to make it interesting we could turn it into a game: So many points for killing a billionaire and less if you bag a mere millionaire. Prizes will be such things as a new solar panel.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5022 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On 2010-02-25 20:10, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
I'm not the one talking about deniers or language usually used by the religious to discuss their dogma. Nor am I using any moral calculus/leverage to put skepticism against the impending doom of generations (and more) to scare people into compliance.

So, what do you have as far as answers to the basic questions?

I believe that the US government should be investing in and subsidizing the research and technology to make non-centralized sources of energy available. Solar is obviously a good beginning; wind power tends to be more centralized, but at least is less destructive than nuclear, oil, or coal.

I don't believe any country should impose its will on another, but I believe in the power of a good example. It s not inconceivable that with the technology produced by the many brilliant engineers and scientists the US has, other countries will see that they too can have renewable sources of energy. But as a citizen of the US, my responsibility is with helping to change the habits of this country.

People change bad habits when they have viable alternatives.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Oh joy, more good climate news (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.25 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL