I don't get it. I didn't see *anything* new in this at all.

This is just the Radar deck - nothing more.

Move on people, there's nothing to see here.

Alex

Received both and like them both very much, good additions.

Thank you.

Rudy

Thaks for clarify, so I did understand you correctly then. In which case, there is a very real chance that you could get all three specs thinking of the same card and an even bigger chance of two of them having the same. Whilst two is very slighty feasible three is just not likely and instantly screams 'trick deck' to the crowd using the slow revelation. This is, of course, just my opinion and if it works for you then fine but I really think the power behind the original is lost when it's laboured more in this way.

Thewichedwitchoftheweb, this as you've described is the long standing premise of the Tossed Out Deck. It's quite common for two or more spectators to have the same card. What you seem to have a problem with is the standard premise of the effect not his handling and info contained in his e-book.

What on earth are you people going on about?

There's nothing new in this ebook. Not a single thing.

I'd like to know more about Paul Vigil's HCE and what it includes that makes it worth $1000.00!

@Mindpro: Absolutely, but using the standard 'rattle off three cards and everyone sits down' principle it is assumed by the audience that each person was thinking of a different one of the cards you called. Using the slow reveal method there is a very real possibility that all three will indicate they're thinking of the same card which the whole audience will be made aware of and that just seems far too fishy.

Dr. K

I appreciate your post.

I never said there was anything new.

Just my way of presenting the TOD and most people seem to enjoy it.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I respect your opinion.

I just gave it out for people to see what works for me, as I perform on a daily basis.

Thanks to everyone

Alex

The entire PDF can be summarised in one sentence:

"Use a 3-way TOD and fish for the cards."


Wow - 9 words.


Also, there's a massive, gaping flaw in this. What if all 3 spectator's select the same card? Just because you suggest that they select a card in the top third, middle and bottom third does not mean that they will do it.

Even two spectator's selecting the same card is a huge problem. The reason the original TOD revelation works is that it solves that problem.

Go on - explain yourself.

Hmm...If you don't like it, maybe you could get your money back.

As for me, I'm having Jack Bough do me up 3 Mirage decks. I'll run 3 selections (from my hands) to 3 people, do the whole HOY thing that everyone has seen, and as an after thought, determine who was transmitting what. It may play better than TOD for all I know...and I don't think the audience will never miss the handling differences. I thank Alex for the inspiration.

Dr. K.

With regards to your post

"Also, there's a massive, gaping flaw in this. What if all 3 spectator's select the same card? Just because you suggest that they select a card in the top third, middle and bottom third does not mean that they will do it.

Even two spectator's selecting the same card is a huge problem. The reason the original TOD revelation works is that it solves that problem.

Go on - explain yourself."

I will explain myself.

I never once suggested that you tell each person to lift off one third of the deck or half or the other third....that to me weakens the effect.

ok so lets say all 3 people thought of the same card........well it plays as a huge coincidence, I have only had it happen to me in 2 performances, and after the show, the spectators were amazed because they thought I had influenced them to think of a certain card even though all the cards were shown different, and the deck was tossed out to them and I had no control over the cards.

I don't necessarily think its a bad thing if 2 or 3 people thinkof the same card.

I have had 2 people think of the same card which happens 50% of the time, with the third person thinking of another card, and I play it off as a coincidence, and it blows people away how I was able to for one, divine the cards, and two, have both specs think of the same card.........

I never thought that my variation was a Radar deck, I have it, but never used it, but I felt that the TOD even though it is good as it is, can play better when doing individual divinations to people.

Yes, I have also taken out the cards when doing a close up gig, do a classic force, or any force, and read the minds of the specs, up to 4 or 5, and that just as amazes people just as much.........but the thing I like about the TOD is that you start by showing all of them different, and toss it out, and you know the rest.........heck it works for me, and I just wanted to share the idea...if you don't like it then move on..........I am glad some people got inspired by my ideas like Tom, and others who have emailed me, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Look at Luke Jermay...........here on the Café he has gotten very bad reviews, some good, some bad.......I saw the show..........I was in the front row...I paid full price, and I know Luke personally, and I liked the show.....yes it had flaws and whatnot, but his Q&A was spot on with some minor flaws...people in the audience that werent magicians were impressed and amazed at his accuracy.

Try to think as a laymen.

All in all Dr. K, thanks for your post, and I hope I cleared up your doubts.

Alex

Alex, I like what you done with this age old effect. Got a copy of it the other day and I have gotta to say it has some very good insight.
Thanks
BM

Fair enough.

If I were you, here are some things to think about.

Which is the best effect (from a spectator's perspective):

- 3 spectator's all pick the same card.
- 2 spectator's pick the same card, one different.
- 3 spectator's pick different cards.


Your way of presenting the Radar deck might have good results, but you lack a clear effect. What ability are you trying to demonstrate? What do you want them to remember? Mind-reading? Coincidence? What?


The effect of the original "sit-down" TOD is crystal clear. IE, "This guy read the minds of 5 different people". There's no other way for a spectator to interpret the effect.

Again, your handling lacks this clarity.

I should also add, my concern is that you're presenting a weak effect (or one that is not as strong as it *could* be).

Feel free to ignore my advice, but eventually you'll come to the same conclusions I've drawn.

Hmmm... If you're still offering, I'd be interested in taking a look at both pieces. I'm particularly interested in the Tossed Out Deck considering I'm in the process of studying several sources for the effect including Harry Anderson's take, David Regal's version, Gazzo's version, and Tony Clark's presentation. Thanks a million!


Michael Matson

Do you study Hoy??? hehe

Alex,
Thanks for the downloads!
I've had time to read over the two you sent me and I'm not only impressed with their quality but also your thorough development.
Much appreciated,
Larry

I myself think the additions that Alex has added are very nice. Dr. K opinion is the same as every one else has who has had problems with this idea. For the official record. If it was not for people like Alex who take an old idea with all of its flaws and try to work out the bugs in this effect. Tossed Out Tech would not survive as long as it has. The idea of TOT is a great one. The problem with TOT may never be fully solved. If there is a chance of solving it it will come one step at a time and come from wonderful people such as Alex who put the time in to make it happen.

Thanks Alex can not wait for the next installment of your work.

Thanks
BM

Thank you Larry and Bill.

Look forward to writing more books soon.

Alex

I just recently found out about the tossed out deck (the original handling),and how it works and everything..and the first thing that came to my mind was :
why not let a couple of spectators do the mind reading?

lets say you have 3 people peek at a card,get 3 other people on stage..play it up like telepathy thing...let THEM read minds.

they call out random cards,if one of them happens to name the force card - great, you have a miracle,if not, you as the magician can jump in and correct that "one" little mistake.
improvise a little bit,maybe one of them came close to the force card (chanes are good) ...in the end you correct that one mistake,but still,the 2 other spectators got the cards spot on.


is this an original idea? probably not,since it was the first thing that came to my mind when I found out about the workings.

anyways,let me know what you think...do you think this might work in a real performance?