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Psychological Mind Reading Illusionist
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Hey, I'm very new but interested in NLP. I was wondering if NLP is like hypnosis without the trance; for instance, can you suggest people into performing tasks without putting them in a trance with NLP?

- Johnny
dmkraig
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Hi, Johnny.

NLP is not a single thing. It is a set of technologies.

According to modern hypnosis theory (as I understand it), virtually everyone can be hypnotized, but not every hypnotist can hypnotize everyone. That's a bit convoluted. It basically means that you can be hypnotized, but not every hypnotist will be able to lead you into a hypnotic trance.

This is because people are individuals. That's the key.

The same thing is true of NLP. One of the techniques will work on some people and not others. A technique that works with one person for a few moments may not work a few moments later. That is why with NLP you need to observe the person you're working with, understand the concepts of all the techniques, and be able to change your words, your approach, your technique, etc., as appropriate, and when necessary (called "calibration").

What you're talking about, suggesting that people perform "tasks without putting them in a trance" is more accurately called "influence." People do it all the time (under ordinary circumstances."Pass the salt, please" or "While you're up, could you get me some water?"). Magicians do it to ("Pick a card, any card" or "Stand right here over the trap door").

I believe that Kenton Knepper (wonderwizards.com has several books on how to do what you're looking for.

There are many good books about NLP. As you can see, though, knowing about NLP and being able to adequately use it are two different things. If you are interested in being able to really use it, I would suggest taking a training. A good basic training generally takes a week.

Finally, I imagine you're familiar with the concept of misdirection. The fact is, most people who aren't trained in hypnosis or NLP and talk about about them make statements that are filled with errors. A good magician can therefore use the knowledge that most people have an incorrect or incomplete understanding of these subjects as misdirection.


For example, a simple and boring equivoke effect can become a miracle if you dress it up with a bit of misdirection that invokes NLP, CIA experiments in mind control, cold readings, etc.

Just because a magician claims to be using NLP doesn't mean he or she is using NLP.
tiriri
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NLP are a series of techniques and methods that were organized primarily by Richard Bandler and John Grinder back in the 70's and that have becomed very popular nowadays, not only among magicians and mentalists. A great part of these techniques have to do with reading other people to know which technique would be useful with them, because as dmkraig just said not everybody is the same.

Anyway, the answer to your question about influencing other people without an obvious trance is: Yes, because there are many NLP techniques focused on bypassing the conscious mind to get to the unconscious, for example, the use of embedded commands.

If you are interested in the subject there are a lot of books and courses offered worldwide so you can learn to use NLP. I do use a lot of it in my mentalism and hypnosis shows and I find it very useful, amazing, and also something that you never stop learning about.

Yours,


Giovanni.
Dannydoyle
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Some would argue that it is an attempt to quantify art rather than a science. Others would say it is much bunk.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Nongard1
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Go to Amazon and buy "Trance Formation" by richard bandler, the creator of NLP. The book will answer every question you have about the relationship between hypnosis and NLP and the uses of each. You will get the answer form the hourses mouth, the book is less than $15.00

bandler states people move from trance to trance, and are always in trance. So the answer to "is it like hypnosis without trance" is no, since trance according to bandler is ALWAYS present. It is trance ulilization that makes either hypnosis or NLP effective.

the second question, can you get people to act on suggestion without putting them into trance? Bandler would state they are ALREADY in trance, and we NEVER put people in trance, we simply make them aware of the trance they are already in.

What you are really asking about is covert hypnosis. This is predicated on the language patterns of Milton Erickson, which heavily influenced NLP.

Like any other subject, the way you personally will use these skills, has as much to do on your natural communication skills, your willingness to practce, your inate personality traits, as it does training or a class. Depending on what you want to accomplish, it will also depend on the social and spychologica factors inherant in your subject.

So if the real question is, can I take an NLP course, and then get everyone to do what I want covertly, the answer is probaly no. Unless you have some special inate skills, and surround yourself with people who hav ediffused sense of ego. (think cult leader).

Can you take an NLP class and GREATLY enhance your ability to "read" people and communicate more effictively (think politician or grat leader in any field) the answer is yes.

If you want to learn more I have many NLp videos posted on http://www.youtube.com/clinicalhypnosis
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis
Psychological Mind Reading Illusionist
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Wow, thanks everybody for the great feedback. I now have a great sense of what NLP really is, but now I realize NLP isn't exactly what I was looking for. However, the Covert Hypnosis using Milton Erickson's language patterns is a lot closer to what I am looking for. Now a new inquiry about a new topic seems to be in my path. Does anybody have any suggestions where and how I can learn more about Covert Hypnosis using Milton Erickson's language patterns?

Thanks & Much Appreciated
- Johnny
Nongard1
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Yes, take my NLP course.
LOL

Why? Because it teaches the foundations of hypnosis, interpersonal communications, NLP. and hypnosis. There are courses out there that will take your $99 and teach you "Blark Arts Secret Methods" or "Covert hypnosis revealed only to the illuminati" or "Secret trance of the hidden hoadoia tribe" And what will happen is, you will sepnd 99 dollars to learn JUST WHAT YOU WANT- but you will be no good becasue you only learned a part of it, then you will say, "It didn't work"!

What you are saying is that you have some rather lofty goals in covert hypnosis communication. These are only attained by a few, but not because only a few know these secrets, but because only a few have taken the broad enough education to see how these specific methods fit into manipulation, politics, pick-up artistry, criminal action or anything other nefarious application for either good or evil.

For example, if you goal is to get someone to believe the squash they ave for sale are big spliffs and must be hidden from the authorities (a comedy bit Anthony Jaquin did) you can't jsut learn to say what anthony said. You could just parrot it. But anthony know how the person would respond to his suggesions becasue he has a large base of knowlege to build from. parreting his words would fail 95% OF THE TIME

Save the $99 on a quickie e-course, no matter how good the copy reads and how many special offers you get, and take a full nlp course then go on from there.
http://www.SUBLIMINALSCIENCE.COM
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis
dmkraig
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Hi, Johnny.

As Richard wrote, "take a full NLP course then go on from there."

The problem with virtually all of the books and DVD courses is that you learn ABOUT Erickson's techniques. That's like learning about sex. You can read about sex in lots of books. Actually putting it into practice is quite different.

Those books and DVDs will teach you about more than a dozen techniques known as the "Milton Model." To truly master the Milton Model require going beyond simply knowing what the techniques are. You have to know how to instantly and, for lack of a better term, organically use them. You can't think, "Hmmm. Should I use a null comparative, an embedded command or a syntactic ambiguity?" Rather, you need to know all of them so well that they can just flow from you and you use the right ones as if you were on "automatic pilot."

That means you need to know what the Milton Model is and have to practice all the parts of it over and over and over.

One way to do this is by learning one of the Milton Model techniques and practicing it in your conversations for a week. Then move on to the next one. After about four months, you should be able to do them, but then you'd need to spend time blending them and making sure they sound natural.

Of course, there's also the question of "Are you doing them correctly?" When you take an in-person class your trainer should be observing and make sure you are getting it while you practice with different people.

That's why in-person training is a great way to START. Usually, such training only spends a day or two with the Milton Model out of a week of training. So as Richard wrote, you have to "go on from there."

Unless you really want to learn NLP and the Milton Model, you'll have a lot more success doing magic tricks with a story about NLP and covert hypnosis as part of your misdirection.

Personally, I think getting trained in NLP can be beneficial to many people, especially if they want to improve their communication skills.
Psychological Mind Reading Illusionist
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Thanks Richard & dmkraig, I checked it out and the NLP Essentials - Strategies for Personal Power and Influence - 2 DVD Set looks interesting. If it's as good as your speed induction dvd, then I'm in. = D

I was also looking at this book at amazon.com,

http://www.amazon.com/Ericksonian-Approa......5&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product......&s=books

would you recommend this book for learning and understanding covert hypnosis or inductions without putting someone to sleep?

JOhnny
dmkraig
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Although Erickson is known as a hypnotist—because of the popularity of NLP and his dramatic effect on the practice of hypnotherapy—he was first and foremost a pragmatic and licensed psychiatrist. His goal was to help people any way he could. Hypnosis was involved only part of the time.

"Ericksonian Approaches" is a great book for understanding some of the basic concepts of Erickson from an NLP viewpoint. It will share the ideas, of course, but not give you a chance to use them.

Shlomo's book is also highly recommended for giving you the basics along with extra tricks.

There are people here who sell books and DVDs on hypnosis and NLP, and I think some of them are wonderful. I have reviewed some of them on these forums. However, I do want to point out that there are people on this forum who say the best way to learn hypnosis is to take an in-person training. I agree with them. The same is true for NLP.

There is a difference between reading about hypnosis and NLP, observing DVDs on hypnosis and NLP, and participating in a hypnosis and DVD training. It's the same as reading about sex, watching a movie about sex, and actually having sex. They're just not the same things.

I have and refer to many of the books and DVDs available on hypnosis and NLP. I think they are incredibly valuable and important for EXTENDING your understanding and abilities in these areas, as well as for being a frequent reminder of aspects of your training.

Hypnotists NEVER put someone to sleep (at least not intentionally). They help people achieve a trance state.
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