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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
According to Wikipedia, Gospel magic can be used "to convey mystagogy in the belief that religious mysteries cannot be shown empirically but can only be described as inner experience.... The Gospel Magician hopes to convey this sense of mystery by performing an otherwise inexplicable magic trick in front of his or her audience."
A friend of mine who performed mental street magic used to tell people, "If I can know that, just imagine what God knows..."
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
I personally disagree with Wikepedia. The above statement does not describe Gospel magic in any way that at least how I would describe it. The Bible is absolute Truth.
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
Good cover article in The Linking Ring (March 2010) on New Zealand's Greg Britt. Met his wife through Youth for Christ, their older daughter is a youth pastor. Has Greg ever been at the FCM convention? Looks like a terrific family entertainer.
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Kif Anderson FCM forum Staff 1961 - 2012 386 Posts |
I don't know if Greg has ever been at FCM (certainly not in the last five years) but he did come and speak at the Southern California FCM conference a couple of years ago. He stopped in LA for a few days with his wife and son on his way to Duane's Branson conference. He is one of the busiest school performers in New Zealand. He does a great family show. Very high energy.
We are not cisterns made for hoarding, we are channels made for sharing. - Billy Graham
<BR> <BR>Sharing the gospel with Comedy & Illusion www.ozandwilde.com |
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-03-08 08:36, MagicBus wrote: Here's a more mainstream definition from Magicpedia: Gospel Magic is the a tailoring of a magic performance so that it can be used to instruct children or adults on some aspect of Christian theology. However, here's a very interesting approach found in a story called "Breath of God": http://spiritualmagic.org/stories.php
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
Here is just one of my more simple definitions I give people when I'm asked.
Gospel magic uses magic tricks and illusions as object lessons to help promote, teach, and illustrate biblical truths and principals in a informal enviroment to the churched and unchurched children or adults.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
Right on Gospel Dan, sounds like more of a general understanding of what Gospel magic is commonly thought of as, especially by FCMers.
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Terry Owens Inner circle Ft. Wayne, Indiana 1707 Posts |
Ripping me off again are you Tony...I won't allow it!
Whatever I have, say or do...feel free to use...it will come out better coming from you... :) Terry |
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
Terry- good to hear from you again. Man oh man I wish you could send me your DVDs again without the "network" logos on it- Randy said he really wanted to use your footage but could not figure out how to erase the "signage" or network reference or whatever it was. If you ever do your own performance DVD-- I beg you to forward it on. I would have loved to have used it on Now That's Magic!, great stuff.
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
Another sidebar: Haven't seen March/April issue of "The Voice of FCM" yet- did it go out?/anyone get it in the mail? I always look forward to reading it cover to cover, never fail to pick up a pointer or two..
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
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On 2010-03-09 01:27, MagicBus wrote: Yes, I agree, and I'm not trying to heckle or spread heresy. I have signed a statement of faith very much like the FCM statement, so don't get me wrong. But since the topic was "Christian Magic," I thought some creative perspectives might be interesting. Another approach would be using magic as art which can glorify God in the same way that composing music can glorify God even when it's not "Gospel music" per se. Some of the great composers were Christians but didn't include Gospel lyrics. Christian sports figures typically glorify God as well. Using the magic as a conversation starter in a general way was a good approach mentioned above, and magic could be used to start specifically meaningful conversations because magic involves wonder, mystery, and things beyond the natural realm. In an increasingly naturalistic, humanistic, materialistic world, magic makes a good bridge to spiritual topics.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
Kinda in line with the above, what are some of the things/beliefs of Christianity that you "can't mess with?" Unity is important, even in this broad area of Gospel magic, but unity is not always the "end all" if the basic beliefs of Christianity are being compromised. A very good message on this topic in my view, e.g. where to draw the line, can be listened today (3-12-2010) for free at http://www.walkintheword.com The message is entitled "Convicted about Unity" from James MacDonald's series "The Power of Personal Conviction." So, quite obviously, if a "Gospel magician" wants to use this medium to promote voodoo or the occult or some sort of unBiblical self absorbed, not God centered, mysticism... then us bloggers are not just nasty old creeps if we clearly state that this is not what the FCM is all aboout and "Gospel magic" does not include that particular useage... I support Gospel Dan takes the hard road and takes the time to discuss these types of things, much appreciated. When I do it, it often does not come across in gentleness, patience, forbearance, self-restraint and kindness which is also needed. Carry on today!
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gphrenol Regular user 112 Posts |
I think doing Christian magic is like any magic where you tie a story line or theme into what you are doing. It is done not as a bunch of seperate tricks but as something to show you're willing to interact and present a cause you believe in or or paid to present.
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
Mysticism is, of course, a big problem in China too, but with the university students here who are trained in atheism from an early age, sometimes we need things to move converstions toward meaningful or spiritual things in order to get a step closer to the Gospel. It's a very planned and conscious strategy for reaching the lost, not dabbling in spiritism!
I love the slogan: In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love. The problem is that we disagree, sometimes, about the essentials. For me the Apostle's Creed is a good start. The atonement is also a very important doctrine that sometimes gets played down, to say the least.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
Conviction is what we should be aiming for. Non believers need to be convicted under the law before they can ever realize why they need God. They need to see that they have sinned against God.
The best strategy would be using the law. If we really love people, and have an authentic desire to see them saved, we will be willing to leave our comfort zone to tell them the truth rather than attempt to sale pitch Jesus. Tongue in cheek example: (Hey, are you waking up in the morning to find the sun isn't shining on you? Do you feel miserable about facing another day? Does you coffee get cold before the last drop? My friend, what you need is Jesus! That's right friend, you need Jesus! All you have to do is ask Jesus in your heart and you will wake up every morning with the sun shining on you. You'll no longer feel miserable as you face every new day with a new found happiness. And, your coffee will stay warm right to the very last drop. Wait, that's not all! <You mean there's more???> Yes...if you act now, you'll also recieve the Holy Spirit at no extra cost. That's right, absolutely free! Not only that, but as an added bonus you'll also receive a gift package containing enough tithing envelopes to last a whole year. All this can be yours with one simple prayer. Pray now before it's too late!)
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
Give Law to the proud.
Give Grace to the humble.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Alan:
Quote:
Another approach would be using magic as art which can glorify God in the same way that composing music can glorify God even when it's not "Gospel music" per se. Some of the great composers were Christians but didn't include Gospel lyrics. Christian sports figures typically glorify God as well. I'm not trying to be antagonistic at all - but can you support this from the Bible? I know Psalms and other poetry books speak of nature - what God has done - glorifying Him. But I don't recall where anything a man has created or done - other than love Jesus and live for Him - glorifies God?? Again, not antagonism - if I have missed this in my readings, I would enjoy seeing it. Personally, I can not equate helping people "see beauty" or "feel uplifted" with God being glorified. My kids and several of their friends are artists and musicians. They stage art shows with musical performances. They are excellent! But if you never spoke to them and heard "Jesus" from them, you would _never_ leave there with God glorified to you (short of a special manifestation). Or, as Gospel Dan put it: Quote:
promote, teach, and illustrate biblical truths and principals Ed |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
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On 2010-03-16 15:09, Ed_Millis wrote: Someone's obviously never been in a mediaeval cathedral. Even I, the hard hearted atheist that I am can find myself momentarily "uplifted" by the awesome beauty and grandeur of these icons of faith. The amount of work and learning that went into constructing these buildings for the sole purpose of glorifying their god is awe inspiring and breathtaking It may not be biblical, and in fact isn't with that whole graven images thing the Muslims take far more seriously. But you certainly cannot deny that one of the reasons Christianity held such sway over the masses for all those centuries was in part because of these nearly magical constructions. To many they were proof of gods existence and limitless power.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-03-16 16:01, Payne wrote: And, as we can see, it has not brought you to the point where you admit how sinful you are, and how much you need God. It didn't even convince you that there is a God. So, how does it Glorify God then? You felt good and were moved, but not spiritually, perhaps emotionally. Alan, I recieved your PM and by your request I will answer your question here in a post. There is no Gospel magic trick that will convict. Nor should it be implied that there is. I also don't believe that when preaching the Law to non believers that we should be looking for and using a trick to help illustrate it. There is no need to use objects lessons to help illustrate the Law, nor should we risk making light of it by using any form of entertainment to present it. It is the Law that convicts a non believer how sinful they are before God, it's a pretty serious thing. You mention Ray Comfort in your PM to me. I will admit that I am unfamiliar with most of his stuff. I have however watched his video, "Hells Best Kept Secret" Ray Comfort is right in using the Law, but he himself admits that he did not invent the idea of it. It is a very biblical way of evangelizing. You can find several instances of it in scripture which I have been forbidden to quote here, or risk having my post either deleted or edited. I would wonder why Ray Comfort would say, "Preach the Law to the proud, and grace to the humble", if he did in fact say that. We should be preaching the Law to all non believers, and preach grace to the repenters. Because your non believing friends are giving you an opportunity to speak from your heart and perform Gospel magic, I am merely saying that this is your opportunity to preach them the Law. You can do this before you present a Gospel trick. Perhaps follow it up with He Is Risen while explaining that He was crucified for our transgressions, etc. Inevitably, the choice is yours to make, I am only suggesting. I hope this helps.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-03-16 15:09, Ed_Millis wrote: Whatever you do whether in word or deed--whether you eat, drink, whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God. We are living sacrifices and we take everything captive to the obedience of Christ. As the Puritans claimed, our work can be worship. Doing something excellently can be a way to let your light shine before men. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your heart unto God. They were really big on this concept at the college my wife attended, and I believe it's common to reformed thinking. You can find theologies that support the concept as well as chapter and verse. Many Christian artists I have met hold to this idea. But this whole discussion is old hat. I remember when Amy Grant stopped recording purely "Christian music.". No one at Toccoa Falls Bible College wanted to talk about the Lord. They just wanted to argue about whether Amy Grant had sold out by "going secular." Ho Hum.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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