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insight Inner circle 3095 Posts |
Ben,
You're right, the performer never touches the prediction again. You bring up a good point, I will consider getting this reviewed. Thanks. Regards, Mike |
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aligator Inner circle Canada 2044 Posts |
Yes, this sounds very good. It can be marketed. Would you consider a pdf file that could be downloaded or emailed. Or does a DVD better suit your particular circumstance. If this is indeed something new, it could be a big success.
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insight Inner circle 3095 Posts |
Aligator,
The reason why I am not considering a pdf file is due to the risk of proliferation on the internet. I think that has occured in the past. Although I am all for knowledge sharing, the risk of illegal distribution is something I think about. Also, by creating a DVD, there may be less buyers (rather than individuals who just click purchase and download), but I can sleep better knowing that a select few who know the secret are performing and stunning, rather than fearing that anybody and everybody knows how this is done because it got into the wrong hands. Hope the rationale for my wanting to make this a DVD is clear. Regards, Mike |
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Jon Hackett Special user UK 737 Posts |
How well read are you in the mentalism field? I only ask what sounds like such an accusative and rude question (genuinely I don't want to!) because of
a. you only have 9 posts! Indeed all of those are hear, so you made an account to say and start this thread. Not an accurate rating of a mentalist, how many posts he has on the Café of coarse, but I find that many well read performers are members here, and for a rather long period of time. b. because you say that this method has not been used in mentalism before, which of course suggests that the method has been used in magic, (but not definitely!) and most methods in magic have transposed over. Now of coarse if the method is not new, it does not mean that the item is not worth publishing, there is a *** good reason that most good methods are re-hashes, and that is that the original 'hash' is great. However, proper credit is apparently the most important thing in the world to many out there that buy all these methods to fill the draws that hold up their arm chairs, and not to would cause quite the storm. Moreover, it is my opinion that something that has its method base in another method already published should always be done in the cheaper end of the market to enable the purchaser to go back and also purchase the original idea in order to fully learn the lineage and thus the complete picture of the method. And yet, if the method is new, there may also be a *** good reason for that also, because it is trite. Often methods are published that are just ridiculous and could virtually never be performed in the regular situations pros find ourselves in. The ordinary combatant to this arising problem is to send the idea pre-release out to a number of pros, this of coarse allows many people out there to hear the opinion of the people they trust on any purchase they may consider. Anyone notice however that virtually every product has a glowing report from one or many of the 'famous' of our fraternity out there, I think this avenue is devaluing itself. So what I guess I'm getting at here is ensure the method is very workable. Ensure the method is very workable. The more workable the solution the more valuable the product, my opinion is that you shouldn't be scared to price it extremely high if it is extremely workable AND killer. Now please do not take anything I say here as offensive I do not mean any of them, as in I am not suggesting that you are not a pro, I am not suggesting the method is not entirely original. Anyone reading this, I know nothing of the effect or method, so please to do not take this as saying that this effect is anything, at all, I know nothing! But what I do know is I have purchased many items in my time that relate to magic. And the above is, I feel, some very good advice. I hope at least a little of this makes sense! Jon Hackett
It is not the brains that matter most, but that which guides them -- the character, the heart, generous qualities and progressive ideas. Doystoyevsky
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cpbartak Special user Mooresville, NC 941 Posts |
I'd definitely recommend sending review copies of your routine to some of the bigger name performers on the forum to verify that the methods aren't in print elsewhere, and to see what they would set the price at, before you release it.
Some people hear voices.. Some see invisible people.. Others have no imagination whatsoever.
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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-03-17 11:59, cpbartak wrote: Absolutely agree. Make sure you haven't re-invented the wheel. I see that happen time and time again... especially in the world of mentalism. People are jumping on this bandwagon and they have no idea who rode before them. Send it to at least four or five guys that know the history of things. Max Maven, Larry Becker, Osterlind, John Riggs, are just a few names that come to mind. You will make a bad name for yourself if you release something and then the pros come in and say, "This is that old method that can be found in..." Slow down and get some history about your idea before you send it out to be sold. Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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insight Inner circle 3095 Posts |
Great advice, thank you Jon, Cpbartak, and Greg. A common point you all make is the need to ensure whether the method is currently in use. I definitely will contact the top pros you mention to make sure, and I will not release something without giving proper credit, if credit is due. I'm all for that.
In my opinion, my method is very workable. Hopefully, you can see that in the demo which I will release in the future. I'm in no hurry to release this, and I will cross my t's and dot my i's. Jon, to address your point, I've been in the field for 15 years, but have just recently joined the Café...it's an honor to be conversing with this group. Regards, Mike |
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dmoses Inner circle 2261 Posts |
Actually Mike...
I'd be satisfied if you just sent it to Greg (who is a frequent poster and well respected member of the Café's mentalism forum for review). Then he could encourage you to pass it on to others... or not as the case may be. Sorry to volunteer you Greg.
"You're a comedian. You wanna do mankind a service, tell funnier jokes."
TPR by Dave Moses and Iain Dunford T-shirts for Magicians and Mentalists |
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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-03-17 14:09, dmoses wrote: Sure... I guess I can take it on. And I will pass it on to people I trust to get their opinion. Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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mrmagic0 Inner circle Ron Frank 1605 Posts |
I for one, do not recommend selling this (if it comes to fruition) to a magic wholesaler. Yes you may sell a lot but the wholesaler needs to buy this so he can resell it to a magic dealer and by the time you take off for this you are making pennies.
Ron |
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insight Inner circle 3095 Posts |
Dmoses, I agree and also very much value Greg's background.
Greg, when this is ready, I will PM you so we can arrange something, appreciate your help. I'm also working on some other projects, I'll let you know about those via PM as well. Ron, I guess the bottom line is that margins are much lower with a mass distribution channel. I guess it's like buying fruit from a grocery chain or buying it directly from the farmer. You can sell more fruit through a major store, but you can probably take care of the fruit better having raised it yourself and provide a level of service (and knowledge) that customers will value accordingly. Regards, Mike |
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goldeneye007 Inner circle London 2423 Posts |
Greg is indeed one of the good choices!
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mrmagic0 Inner circle Ron Frank 1605 Posts |
Mike:
I agree that one is far better off selling the item themselves and having control over quality and product. Yes one gets better distribution but at what cost? One is at the mercy of the wholesaler. We started to go the wholesaler route when we first came out with CPI and CPII. I will not mention the wholesaler but suffice it to say they did not store the CPII (watch)properly with the end result of the batteries getting drained. They then wanted me to replace the batteries at my cost and also return the product at my cost. They returned all the products to me including the CPI which were fine. They threw all in a box so that even the CPII watches that were OK were then drained of power. By the time I would have finished doing all this I would have lost money. I just kept the units and when they called to see where the product was I just said we would part "friends" and that I would not return the goods. It was a very costly lesson since we are talking a VERY big dollar amount but I learned from this. Ron |
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Steve Suss Inner circle 1193 Posts |
A review by some well respected mentalists as mentioned above would be very important. The effect must also be practical and all working conditions should be spelled out. If you're looking to sell this at a higher price it should be something that performers will actually use. Can it be done close up, stage, surrounded etc. Does it require a particular skill or special clothing?
The effect sounds great but you've got to prove it is as good as it sounds. Good luck! |
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insight Inner circle 3095 Posts |
Hi everyone,
I'm keeping track of the questions (keep them coming), and I will document in a detailed manner and communicate everything before I offer my effect for sale. That, combined with some reviews from other mentalists, and even a demo, will help folks make an informed decision before purchase. I think this may be an investment rather than an expense for mentalists, and so doing all of this work in advance makes sense. After having thought through this, I doubt this will be a $35 trick. Because I will invest the time and energy (in addition to providing the materials), this will take time. Thanks. On another note, there is another effect I have been doing for the last year which also is amazing in its own right (and it's less costly), and I will advertise this on the Café, so be on the look out for it. Just a heads up, it deals with predicting the winning lotto numbers to any lotto drawing in the world, at least one week in advance of the drawing. Regards, Mike |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Good luck with it, and I'm glad it wasn't the methods I thought it would be!
I've asked to be banned
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Waterloophai Inner circle Belgium 1368 Posts |
Proposal: lets put this thread on "pause" for a while.
There are said wise things and the creator knows what to do. The description of the trick is very promising and has a great potential. (I was the first in this thread to mention that in an earlier post). But.... till now there is no demo, there is no review and it is not for sale. Theoreticaly it is even possible that there is simply nothing and all is fantasy. This forum has numerous threads with the description of promising and "wonderful" effects. Many of those effects never saw the daylight and disapeared before they were ever there. So, as Iain wrote: Good luck and our (my) next appointment is when it is for sale or when there is a demo or when there is a review. |
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Jon Hackett Special user UK 737 Posts |
Nicely put everyone, and I think at least, a job well done in terms of giving opinions on what and how it should be done.
To wrap up from my point of view I would say this, Insight, keep it to yourself, in that, don't put it through the dealers, and if it is as good as you say (and only you know) charge a really high price for it, this exclusivity will only add to the value, and ensure that it is used by the people that should be using it, not those whom want to. Good luck, and stay special! Jon Hackett
It is not the brains that matter most, but that which guides them -- the character, the heart, generous qualities and progressive ideas. Doystoyevsky
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insight Inner circle 3095 Posts |
Thanks to all who contributed to this thread and provided some useful information for me to ponder. I agree, let's put this "on pause" until I reach the next phase of the 3 phases that are to follow: 1) demo, 2) review, and finally 3) sale.
Good luck to everyone in their magic and mentalism! Regards, Mike |
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LukeB Loyal user 294 Posts |
Hey Insight,
You say you perform it daily, why wait before you run it by some pro's? Do you want to waste your time and money doing a demo when it could be not a new concept? Everyone's probably keen to hear something about this from someone who is not marketing it...It can only be good for your bottom line,alot of people like hype when they know its genuine |
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